Engine saver dehumidifier

ssonixx

ssonixx

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ssonixx
Was reading some maintenance blogs and came across an "Engine Saver Humidifer." It apparently provides positive dry air pressure into the breather tube of an engine, the logic being it replaces moist air with dry air.

Anyone use one of these? Does it work?

Seems it would be limited in its ability to get to the cylinder head depending on which valve was open or closed.
 
ssonixx said:
Was reading some maintenance blogs and came across an "Engine Saver Humidifer." It apparently provides positive dry air pressure into the breather tube of an engine, the logic being it replaces moist air with dry air.

Anyone use one of these? Does it work?

Seems it would be limited in its ability to get to the cylinder head depending on which valve was open or closed.
Click to expand...

More important in the crankcase. Cam, etc. I bought one but turns out they're easy to make.
 
I don't have the skill to make one myself.

Does it act as both a heater and a drier in one?

For a couple/few hundred bucks, if it works, it seems it would be worth the spend.
 
timwinters said:
Sure you do!

http://www.barkeraircraft.com/EngineDryerSportAvi.pdf
Click to expand...

When I went to the link inside the above link to look at the parts kit, my browser returned a big red warning box with the following text:


Reported Attack Page!

This web page at www.geocites.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.

Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.
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edit: The page seems to have moved here with an updated kit.
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/Engine-dryer-kit.html

Is this a recommended product for those of us that fly every other week (or maybe every 3rd week in humid S.E. Florida?
 
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It's just a .pfd from Sport Aviation. Opened fine for me and I have good protection (!). Maybe your computer lies.....?

Here's another version of the original:
http://home.comcast.net/~r123rs/Documents/Engine_Dryer_Sport_Avi.pdf

Here's a discussion that may be useful:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=26286

And the full story on his new and improved....:
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/files/Bulid_Instructions_Part_1pdf.pdf

He makes other goodies too:
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/
 
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The question always is, does this even do anything? On the Vans forum, there was a poster who said he just opens the oil filler and then hooks a shop vac to it for a few minutes and sucks the moist air out. If you put a plug in the breather tube to prevent outside air from getting in and create a vacuum, I would think this would get rid of 80% of the moist, corrosive air. Still I could do this and still never know if it really works or not.
 
Dav8or said:
The question always is, does this even do anything? On the Vans forum, there was a poster who said he just opens the oil filler and then hooks a shop vac to it for a few minutes and sucks the moist air out. If you put a plug in the breather tube to prevent outside air from getting in and create a vacuum, I would think this would get rid of 80% of the moist, corrosive air. Still I could do this and still never know if it really works or not.
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Unfortunately, piston aviation is devoid of scientific studies that can truly give us the answer. One Twin Cessna owner wrote an article and did a semi-scientific study that pretty much showed what you'd expect, which is that if you have engine parts covered in oil in a less humid environment they'll rust much slower than in a more humid environment. I'd tend to say they fall in that category of "It can't hurt."

I also think they're most likely to do you any good if you start at a relatively early point in your engine's life and you plan on keeping the plane for a long time. If you start it at TBO, I doubt if it will do much. One of the problems with gadgets like this is that most people don't keep their planes long enough to really notice a difference, and the impact on resale value will probably be zero.

Dehumidifiers are on my list of things I need to make, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
 
I personally think it is much better to just fly the airplane an hour or so a week. The oil will protect the insides.
 
And what does this device do to remove acids and moisture from the oil?
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I also think they're most likely to do you any good if you start at a relatively early point in your engine's life and you plan on keeping the plane for a long time. If you start it at TBO, I doubt if it will do much.
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And that's the dilemma. I bought my plane with a used engine. Used by other people. I pour in the Camgaurd and build the dehumidifier, but then the engine still makes metal. Do I come to the conclusion that these preventative measures don't work, or was the damage done hundreds of hours ago by someone else?

Ultimately, the only real solution to this dumb corrosion issue seems to be the roller lifters.
 
Another consideration.

If you buy/build one of these then are you going to leave it plugged in pretty much 24/7?

If so are you going to leave the extension cord strung across the hangar with the plug-in connection to the pump laying on the hangar floor?

If so, what happens when a bladder or sump valve springs a leak?

I'm considering building one. But I will definitely keep the end of the extension cord at least 3' AFF. Maybe tie it to a strut or, better yet, wrap a couple of loops around the prop.
 
Dav8or said:
Ultimately, the only real solution to this dumb corrosion issue seems to be the roller lifters.
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Yup, those roller lifters, stop corrosion every time....:dunno:
 
somorris said:
I personally think it is much better to just fly the airplane an hour or so a week. The oil will protect the insides.
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I agree. The best thing you can do for a plane is to fly it regularly. On the other hand, in the real world many of us don't have a need to fly every week, and don't have the time to just go up for fun.

I tend to recommend people try to fly every 2 weeks if they can for the sake of the plane (not to mention personal proficiency). In my world, it tends to go from times like right now where I'm flying every weekend for a month to times where there's 4-6 weeks in between missions.

At the end of this year/beginning of next year, I'm going to have a period where I'm probably not going to have any missions for about 4-5 months, and during that time period I am going to make a point of flying the plane every couple of weeks.

Dav8or said:
And that's the dilemma. I bought my plane with a used engine. Used by other people. I pour in the Camgaurd and build the dehumidifier, but then the engine still makes metal. Do I come to the conclusion that these preventative measures don't work, or was the damage done hundreds of hours ago by someone else?

Ultimately, the only real solution to this dumb corrosion issue seems to be the roller lifters.
Click to expand...

Or were there other factors that played into it. Since nothing is fool-proof, there will always be someone who has bad luck in spite of using some sort of preventative measure. Think of it like eating right - it's good for you, but some people will still die young because of some other freak occurrence.

timwinters said:
Another consideration.

If you buy/build one of these then are you going to leave it plugged in pretty much 24/7?

If so are you going to leave the extension cord strung across the hangar with the plug-in connection to the pump laying on the hangar floor?

If so, what happens when a bladder or sump valve springs a leak?

I'm considering building one. But I will definitely keep the end of the extension cord at least 3' AFF. Maybe tie it to a strut or, better yet, wrap a couple of loops around the prop.
Click to expand...

I think that is an extremely remote possibility of a problem. If nothing else, if a bladder or sump valve springs a leak, it will be drops rather than gushes. 100LL evaporates so quickly, I can't see it building up and puddling. You could have the concern about a spark igniting the fumes, but you'd not get the air/fuel ratios close enough in my opinion, and make the "on the ground" part irrelevant.
 
Dav8or said:
The question always is, does this even do anything? On the Vans forum, there was a poster who said he just opens the oil filler and then hooks a shop vac to it for a few minutes and sucks the moist air out. If you put a plug in the breather tube to prevent outside air from getting in and create a vacuum, I would think this would get rid of 80% of the moist, corrosive air. Still I could do this and still never know if it really works or not.
Click to expand...

And when the air in the engine is sucked out it is replaced by ambient air. Sounds like a time wasting exercise.
 
3393RP said:
And when the air in the engine is sucked out it is replaced by ambient air. Sounds like a time wasting exercise.
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The air inside has more moisture than ambient. How much depends on conditions.
 
I use Phillips XC with Camguard, remove the oil filler after shutdown (you can see moisture instantly escape), change oil every 20 hours or three calendar months and try to fly every week. Not much else I can do.
 
jesse said:
I use Phillips XC with Camguard, remove the oil filler after shutdown (you can see moisture instantly escape), change oil every 20 hours or three calendar months and try to fly every week. Not much else I can do.
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And your engine is older than you.
 
08-13-2012, 11:30 AM #22
1TJ 1TJ is offline
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Here is a picture of a Lycoming roller cam with 300 hours and 1 1/2 years old. Engine tear down because of a prop strike when they discovered this. The Lycoming engineers were NOT happy when they saw this! Corrosion kills more engines, by far, than anything else. And the Lycoming additive, LW-16702, does nothing for corrosion.

http://eaaforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2363&d=1344878368


Ed

Edward Kollin
Technical Director
Aircraft Specialties Lubricants
 
I would be curious what else happened with that.

I'm not really convinced the roller cams on Lycomings do much for corrosion, and nor was that the intent. The intent was cold start.
 
3393RP said:
And when the air in the engine is sucked out it is replaced by ambient air. Sounds like a time wasting exercise.
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The "air" inside the engine is primarily blowby which has a water content W A Y beyond room temperature dew point - something like 15% water IIRC. Plus unburned fuel, CO, CO2, etc. Nasty.
 
Looks like $385, plus tax and shipping.
 
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