Engine R&R cost...a question for the A&Ps

timwinters

timwinters

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So, my local mechanic quoted me a flat rate for removing and replacing my engine (1958 C182A, O-470L).

He's:

R&R'ing engine (to be OH'ed by another shop)

managing the prop (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

managing the exhaust system (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

managing the prop governor (to be OH'ed by another shop)

both the alternator and vacuum pump (wet) were recently OH'ed so we're reinstalling those as removed.

full engine monitor probes R&R.

All new hoses and fuel lines firewall forward.

Inspect and paint the engine mount

IRAN all baffling.

Annual inspection while things are apart.

(I'm sure I'm missing something)

So, A&Ps...what would you flat rate this at (labor only)?
 
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I flat rate a lot of stuff but its mostly because I know I'm kinda slow.
 
Tom-D said:
no, I wouldn't.

Strictly time and materials.
Click to expand...

Okay then, since I'm only talking about the "time" portion, do you have an estimate of how long it'd take you to do the described?
 
timwinters said:
So, my local mechanic quoted me a flat rate for removing and replacing my engine (1958 C182A, O-470L).

He's:

(12 hrs) R&R'ing engine (to be OH'ed by another shop)

(2.5 hrs) managing the prop (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

(1.5 hrs) managing the exhaust system (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

(1.0 hrs) managing the prop governor (to be OH'ed by another shop)

both the alternator and vacuum pump (wet) were recently OH'ed so we're reinstalling those as removed.

(4 hrs) full engine monitor probes R&R.

(1.5 hrs) All new hoses and fuel lines firewall forward.

(1.5 hrs) Inspect and paint the engine mount

(2.0 hrs) IRAN all baffling.

Annual inspection while things are apart.

(I'm sure I'm missing something)

So, A&Ps...what would you flat rate this at (labor only)?
Click to expand...
26 hrs....just messing with R&R the engine, but it could be more....and maybe a few hours less. Add an annual to that and another $2,000....just cause. A good portion of that time is handling and packaging parts to ship.
 
Originally Posted by timwinters
So, my local mechanic quoted me a flat rate for removing and replacing my engine (1958 C182A, O-470L).

He's:

(12 hrs) R&R'ing engine (to be OH'ed by another shop)

(2.5 hrs) managing the prop (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

(1.5 hrs) managing the exhaust system (to be IRAN'ed by another shop)

(1.0 hrs) managing the prop governor (to be OH'ed by another shop)

both the alternator and vacuum pump (wet) were recently OH'ed so we're reinstalling those as removed.

(4 hrs) full engine monitor probes R&R.

(1.5 hrs) All new hoses and fuel lines firewall forward.

(1.5 hrs) Inspect and paint the engine mount

(2.0 hrs) IRAN all baffling.

Annual inspection while things are apart.

(I'm sure I'm missing something)

So, A&Ps...what would you flat rate this at (labor only)?






Checkout_my_Six said:
26 hrs....just messing with R&R the engine, but it could be more....and maybe a few hours less. Add an annual to that and another $2,000....just cause. A good portion of that time is handling and packaging parts to ship.
Click to expand...

I would say that is a pretty close estimate.... IMHO..
 
timwinters said:
Okay then, since I'm only talking about the "time" portion, do you have an estimate of how long it'd take you to do the described?
Click to expand...

No I don't, simply because I have not inspected the job or made a list of the discrepancies we are looking at.

It's like looking at a pig in a poke and trying to guess how much it weighs.
 
Thanks, guys,

I was quoted 33 hours and that includes the annual, so it sounds like he's being quite fair.
 
timwinters said:
Thanks, guys,

I was quoted 33 hours and that includes the annual, so it sounds like he's being quite fair.
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More than fair, at 33 hours. Say "yes," quick!
 
WHat the hell is "managing" the prop? I was getting to the point where I could get my old Hartzell off and back on in about an hour (usually with another 30 minutes to remove, replace, and resafety wire the prop bladder). Of course, packaging it up to ship to some other shop probably takes more time than the r&r does.
 
flyingron said:
WHat the hell is "managing" the prop? I was getting to the point where I could get my old Hartzell off and back on in about an hour (usually with another 30 minutes to remove, replace, and resafety wire the prop bladder). Of course, packaging it up to ship to some other shop probably takes more time than the r&r does.
Click to expand...
"Managing" is a term that self-important people use when trying to nickle and dime you. :D
 
flyingron said:
WHat the hell is "managing" the prop? I was getting to the point where I could get my old Hartzell off and back on in about an hour (usually with another 30 minutes to remove, replace, and resafety wire the prop bladder). Of course, packaging it up to ship to some other shop probably takes more time than the r&r does.
Click to expand...

I take that to mean he is removing it, packaging it, sending it somewhere, managing that relationship with that somewhere, following up with them as needed, getting it back, and reinstalling. That does indeed take time..more time then it takes to remove or install the thing.
 
It was my term for him removing the prop, boxing up, sending to the prop shop, dealing with them, receiving it back, and reinstalling. WTF was I supposed to call it?

(What Jesse said)
 
timwinters said:
It was my term for him removing the prop, boxing up, sending to the prop shop, dealing with them, receiving it back, and reinstalling. WTF was I supposed to call it?

(What Jesse said)
Click to expand...

This is why I say "time and materials" does he make the crate or does the prop shop provide one?

Building a prop crate takes time.
 
Apparently not for this guy, he's gonna do all of that PLUS a complete annual in 33 hours. He's gotta be Supermek.
 
This thread is a prime example of why...sometimes...I just hate this place...
 
Tom-D said:
This is why I say "time and materials" does he make the crate or does the prop shop provide one?

Building a prop crate takes time.
Click to expand...

Tossing it in the back of the Subaru and trucking it down to the prop shop one weekend and trucking it back the next weekend saves a whole POTful of money. Even if the prop shop is 500 miles down the length of California like mine was. Make a holiday weekend out of it with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I'll bet a shopping trip for her to a mall down in the big city might just make it a lot of fun.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Tossing it in the back of the Subaru and trucking it down to the prop shop one weekend and trucking it back the next weekend saves a whole POTful of money. Even if the prop shop is 500 miles down the length of California like mine was. Make a holiday weekend out of it with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I'll bet a shopping trip for her to a mall down in the big city might just make it a lot of fun.

Jim
Click to expand...

I had the luxury of having a prop shop 20 miles away when I lived in Orlando...

Wrap the prop in a blanket,, drive to Herndon Field,, Now called Orl exec or something...:dunno:..

Made a afternoon of it as the 94th Aero Squadron was right next to the prop shop...
 
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FBO on the field here just quoted me 32 hours to R&R the engine only and I even have the cowl off for em. They got a thanks, but no thanks.
 
timwinters said:
This thread is a prime example of why...sometimes...I just hate this place...
Click to expand...

You know I'm sure your mechanic appreciates it when he quotes you a flat rate for a job and then you go internet shopping for hypothetical quotes from people who aren't even going to really even do the job. I mean, why do you do that? What do you think "this place" is? :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
You know I'm sure your mechanic appreciates it when he quotes you a flat rate for a job and then you go internet shopping for hypothetical quotes from people who aren't even going to really even do the job. I mean, why do you do that? What do you think "this place" is? :dunno:
Click to expand...

I understand why he is doing it.

Never rubber stamp an estimate from a mechanic. Do your due diligence. See my previous post.
 
Silvaire said:
You know I'm sure your mechanic appreciates it when he quotes you a flat rate for a job and then you go internet shopping for hypothetical quotes from people who aren't even going to really even do the job. I mean, why do you do that? What do you think "this place" is? :dunno:
Click to expand...

The customer removes the cowling and it still takes an A&P 32 hours to R&R the motor.....:confused:..

That is ONE slow assed mechanic....:rolleyes:
 
I had a guy overhaul the engine in my 172 last year. Dude has been building engines for many years.
He drove 3 hours to get here
Pulled engine and took it back to his shop.
Tore it down
took all parts to eci for inspection and yellow tag
assembled engine
drove back down and installed.
I paid ECI direct before he picked the stuff up.
He charged me $2500

$2500 flat rate is what he does them all for. He did my Eagle's 540 for that price also.
$2500 gets remove, build engine and replace
Hawk flight center in San Marcos. His name is Bill Cassell
 
N801BH said:
The customer removes the cowling and it still takes an A&P 32 hours to R&R the motor.....:confused:..

That is ONE slow assed mechanic....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Assuming it is a simple R&R that seems generous. BUT, I've never been involved with one that goes that smoothly and only requires a simple R&R. Maybe I get all the tightwads who don't want to spend a dime on their airplane, but it seems like there is always a bunch of broken junk to fix that owners have either been too cheap to fix or mechanics too lazy to do anything about. All those little repairs start adding up to a significant amount of time. :)
 
pigpenracing said:
I had a guy overhaul the engine in my 172 last year. Dude has been building engines for many years.
He drove 3 hours to get here
Pulled engine and took it back to his shop.
Tore it down
took all parts to eci for inspection and yellow tag
assembled engine
drove back down and installed.
I paid ECI direct before he picked the stuff up.
He charged me $2500



$2500 flat rate is what he does them all for. He did my Eagle's 540 for that price also.
$2500 gets remove, build engine and replace
Hawk flight center in San Marcos. His name is Bill Cassell
Click to expand...
he's my hero, That is what I do. I contract the labor at a fixed price. every thing else is on your CC.

But to obligate to price as an after thought, no way.
 
Let me give you a hint - I spent $130K overhauling and R&Ring both engines on my turbo normalized twin. Just so we're clear - the quote for the engines were $23995/each. And that's what it cost as well. But NDT of engine mounts, replacing all hoses, overhauling turbos, overhauling waste gates, rigging, accessories, hydraulics, props, etc - it just adds up.

So whenever you see the engine quote, that's just half of it. You're gonna pay twice as much when it's all said and done. Don't wanna scare you away, but that's the reality of it. Be mentally, emotionally and financially prepared.
 
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stratobee said:
Let me give you a hint - I spent $130K overhauling and R&Ring both engines on my turbo normalized twin. Just so we're clear - the quote for the engines were $23995.00/each. And that's what it cost as well. But NDT of engine mounts, replacing all hoses, turbos, waste gates, rigging, accessories, hydraulics, props, etc - it just adds up.

So whenever you see the engine quote, that's just half of it. You're gonna pay twice as much when it's all said and done. Don't wanna scare you away, but that's the reality of it. Be mentally, emotionally and financially prepared.

Wow! They didn't cut you any slack! And you paid $130,000???
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I mean, you can put in your old worn hoses, not overhaul turbos, stick the old plugs back in, not flush the oil cooler etc, but that doesn't make much sense when you've got fresh engines. The price for the actual overhaul of the engine is just the bare minimum. Obviously, if you don't have turbos, then you won't incur that cost and have less hoses to replace. But just as an example - I paid $7K/side for hoses alone. Such a simple item one thinks...

And if you go factory reman, where the engine alone is around $50-54K (about twice as much as a regular overhaul) on a IO-540, then we're talking even more…
 
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It's all gold plated!

2:10 of my time today so far, and all I have to do is pull the carb and vacuum lines and 4 CHT probes, then 4 engine mount bolts and it's out.

32 hours.. LOL.
 
keep in mind....it comes apart quicker than it goes back together....and whatchagonna do with that box of spare parts when yer done? :D
 
I'm well aware of that...

I've been wrenching for a long time. My methods ensure there are no spare parts left:)
 
Last summer I tore the engine down that came out of a Yamaha R6, it needed a head gasket. There was "some" drinking involved in the reassembly.

I didn't have any parts left and everything was right EXCEPT that I got one cam off a tooth. Probably would have done that sober anyways:D
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's all gold plated!

2:10 of my time today so far, and all I have to do is pull the carb and vacuum lines and 4 CHT probes, then 4 engine mount bolts and it's out.

32 hours.. LOL.
Click to expand...

I don't see where anyone was charging 32 hrs to disconnect a few hoses and cables and pull an engine. Maybe I missed that :dunno:
 
Hi
Tom-D said:
he's my hero, That is what I do. I contract the labor at a fixed price. every thing else is on your CC.

But to obligate to price as an after thought, no way.
Click to expand...
pigpenracing said:
I had a guy overhaul the engine in my 172 last year. Dude has been building engines for many years.
He drove 3 hours to get here
Pulled engine and took it back to his shop.
Tore it down
took all parts to eci for inspection and yellow tag
assembled engine
drove back down and installed.
I paid ECI direct before he picked the stuff up.
He charged me $2500

$2500 flat rate is what he does them all for. He did my Eagle's 540 for that price also.
$2500 gets remove, build engine and replace
Hawk flight center in San Marcos. His name is Bill Cassell
Click to expand...
Hi Pigpen, I know this is 3 years old but wanted to see if Bill Cassell is still in the business and if you had his contact information?

regards,
Marc
 
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