Engine Overhaul Southern CA

[Ventucky Red]

Can anyone share some prices in overahuling a Lycoming 0-320 to include R & R.

Thanks

 

[schmookeeg]

One stop's "overhaul it to sell it" overhaul is appx 12,500 last I saw. This for a C172 O-320.

They'll do a nice OH for about 14k

Corona Engines is about 14k also. Ben will do a very good job on your engine, but check on turnaround times, as they're pretty variable of late. We've had a Ben motor go 4400 hours without incident.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

It completely depends on what you want? If you have to OH and do not have the funds and need to get by as cheaply as possible and still be airworthy then a field OH could be cheaper with a little luck. An OH to serviceable limits you can refurb the 4 cylinders for about half of new cylinders (save about $2k just there) then you can send out the cam and crank and case to have them tested, ground and bought back to true for reassembly. This could cost $4k and then the labor is probably about $2k so I suspect the cheapest you can get by with is about $8k or 8 AMU's.

If you do a field OH not cutting any corners or to new limits it could cost you in the 10 AMU to 12 AMU area depending on which parts need to be reworked/replaced. Plus the removal and replacement of course.

If you want a name brand OH then I recommend Zephyr motors Charlie Merlo. I don't exactly know his prices but it is a name that many will recognize when you go to sell your plane. I think it might cost 2 AMU more than a field OH to new limits but you can count on the quality.

http://www.zephyrengines.com/about.html

Charlie has a good reputation on this forum, on AOPA (red boards) and with the International Comanche Society boards.

I would prefer to see a Zephyr engine on a plane I was buying than just about anything else.

 

[schmookeeg]

Dude wants an engine shop reco in SoCal and you send him to Florida?

 

[charlie]

Thanks Tony! FWIW the parts, accessories and vendor services like overhauling the case and grinding the crankcan COST us close to $12K Before we charge anything for labor or heaven forbid profit. You get what you pay for. The shops doing cost cutter overhauls probably make mre money than we do. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines

 

[Ted]

While I understand you're asking about overhaul options in CA, I would encourage you to shop around. Shipping engines is pretty cheap, and I don't know any of the more well-known shops in southern CA.

We just had Charlie do the engines in the 310 (Continental IO-520-Es), and are extremely pleased with the results. We live in Ohio and shipped the engines to Florida. The local engine shop to us is known for doing terrible work. So even though they would've been cheaper both in overhaul cost and shipping cost in the short run, we went with Charlie because we knew the result would be better and cheaper in the long run.

Given that you have a Lycoming, I would also encourage you to look into the specifics of your engine so far as age of crankcase, crankshaft, cylinders, etc. You may actually find that a factory overhaul in your case would make sense. As an example, the engines in my Aztec are narrow-deck engines with old cases, flat tappets, etc. Were I to get either of the engines overhauled, I would probably have gone with a factory overhaul.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Dude wants an engine shop reco in SoCal and you send him to Florida?

Only if he cares to have it done right. I own a house in CA so i know the overall lower/ lack of quality there with super high rates that they charge for Often times sub par work. Not saying you can't find a good mechanic, just that Zephyr is a known quantity.

Have the engine built by a professional and then let the local wrench RR it on the plane.

Thing is if you pay the same to have the job done in LA area and later sell the plane, no one east of Az will know the reputation of the shop and that will effect resell price of the airplane.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Thanks Tony! FWIW the parts, accessories and vendor services like overhauling the case and grinding the crankcan COST us close to $12K Before we charge anything for labor or heaven forbid profit. You get what you pay for. The shops doing cost cutter overhauls probably make mre money than we do. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines

Thanks Charlie, I have never rebuilt an engine.

 

[comanchepilot]

Honestly - its probably cheaper, easier and better if you fly the airplane to Charlie Melot in Florida . . .3 days out - do it over a 3 day weeked - at least til you get to SAT - and 3 back. You talk with Charlie - tell him what you want to see - and when he can do it - you schedule it for 2 months - have it take 2.5 or 2 and 3 weeks - buy an airline ticket home and then back out - heck- I talked myself into it!

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I'd even offer to help with that ferry flight, free. If the owner wasn't quite sure of a trip like this, I would sit copilot and just be of assistance.

I have helped three people to move their airplanes from Coast to Coast Day VFR. Sanjay and I made Oregon to NYC in 4 days, I think we took one day off in the middle just so I could sleep in my own bed while in Kansas.

Took a bit longer to move a Katmi 182 Conversion from NC to Utah/Nevada but that was more of a vacation I think we took 6-7 days. I brought it back to KS with a CFI buddy and then my Pilot brother and I finished the delivery a day or so later.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Honestly - its probably cheaper, easier and better if you fly the airplane to Charlie Melot in Florida . . .3 days out - do it over a 3 day weeked - at least til you get to SAT - and 3 back. You talk with Charlie - tell him what you want to see - and when he can do it - you schedule it for 2 months - have it take 2.5 or 2 and 3 weeks - buy an airline ticket home and then back out - heck- I talked myself into it!

Wichita is not the most direct route for you but if you stopped here I will give you a night in a hotel and steak dinner. Stay at my newly remodeled house if I am moved in by then.

 

[Ted]

It's also worth noting that shipping doesn't cost that much. From Ohio to Florida was, I believe, $300 each way, per engine. Charlie paid shipping one way.

 

[schmookeeg]

Only if he cares to have it done right. I own a house in CA so i know the overall lower/ lack of quality there with super high rates that they charge for Often times sub par work. Not saying you can't find a good mechanic, just that Zephyr is a known quantity.

Hmm.

I'm sorry you've had difficulty with house general contractors. I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. I once encountered a moron with a mullet in Kansas, but I don't color the whole state with that brush.

I agree that Zephyr is a name, but in the C172 resale world, I do not believe "name" is as important as it is on expensive-engined planes, or planes flown by more experienced pilots -- it is indeed a factor for some of the buyers, but there are so many unsophisticated buyers in this segment, that, for instance, a $3k premium spent on a name MOH would probably yield better resale spent on a sand-and-spray shiny paint job, interior, or a radio upgrade.

I do not know if OP is interested in the resale value. Without knowing, I default to that metric, since it's a good comparison baseline. He did ask about "prices", not "value" or "quality".

I haven't seen the actual quote from Zephyr, and I've never used them. I don't know what the premium is, but I'm guessing 3-4k with the shipping. Worth considering on a big six, because that's a smaller % of the total expense, but it is a big chunk on a little Lyc.

The idea that there is only one shop in the US that can competently or even expertly overhaul a C172's O-320, about as plain-vanilla a job as you can get, exceeds even this board's normal level of Cali-bashing. Whatever is important to OP will decide his decision for him, but I don't really see the need to imply the job can't be done right here. Let him decide that for himself.

I've MOH 11 different engines here at 4 different shops in the last 7 years, the majority being 320-series Lycs. I quoted the two I think are worth considering, at opposite ends of the quality/value spectrum. I'll add that Tims of KLGB does a fantastic motor but will be more expensive, and I'll mention that we had very bad customer service over a quality issue with Performance out of KPOC, and I will personally not re-use them or recommend them, but I am only a single data point.

From memory, Tims was in the 17k range, and Performance in that ballpark also (16,500 is in my mind, but I'd need to look it up)

$0.02.

 

[comanchepilot]

Wichita is not the most direct route for you but if you stopped here I will give you a night in a hotel and steak dinner. Stay at my newly remodeled house if I am moved in by then.

Thanks for the invite Tony - but you promised to help me rebuild my engine when you got your A&P!!! Guess you are on to plan C by now!!!

And thanks for that datapoint Mike . . . if a shop stands behind its work then there should not be any of these datapoints - thats what important about those datapoints - it tells you about the mindset of the shop . . .

 

[Ted]

I do not know if OP is interested in the resale value. Without knowing, I default to that metric, since it's a good comparison baseline. He did ask about "prices", not "value" or "quality".

Many folks ask about price, assuming all overhauls are created equal. Without a question, price is a consideration. When we were shopping around for our overhauls, we got quotes from at least half a dozen shops with varying reputations in every corner of the country (except California). With a few exceptions, they were more or less in line. Zephyr's quote was surprisingly competitive for their reputation. So, I think your $3-4k premium would only be compared to a shop that really wasn't doing the job.

The reality is that all overhauls are not created equal, and this can lead to very expensive problems down the road. This goes for even 172 engines, as several folks on the board can attest. The theory that "it's only an O-320/360" and thus doesn't benefit from a quality overhaul is a false assumption.

So I don't think we're doing any disservice with our recommendations, merely pointing out something the OP may not have considered.

 

[wabower]

Those who have had the unfortunate experience of being bull-shltted long-distance by a shop that's doing a major project (raises hand) understand full well the benefits of dealing with someone like Charlie who tells it like it is rather than how he thinks you would like to hear it. Nothing is much worse than having the wheels start falling off and being too far away to do much about it.

Many folks ask about price, assuming all overhauls are created equal. Without a question, price is a consideration. When we were shopping around for our overhauls, we got quotes from at least half a dozen shops with varying reputations in every corner of the country (except California). With a few exceptions, they were more or less in line. Zephyr's quote was surprisingly competitive for their reputation. So, I think your $3-4k premium would only be compared to a shop that really wasn't doing the job.

The reality is that all overhauls are not created equal, and this can lead to very expensive problems down the road. This goes for even 172 engines, as several folks on the board can attest. The theory that "it's only an O-320/360" and thus doesn't benefit from a quality overhaul is a false assumption.

So I don't think we're doing any disservice with our recommendations, merely pointing out something the OP may not have considered.

 

[Ted]

Those who have had the unfortunate experience of being bull-shltted long-distance by a shop that's doing a major project (raises hand) understand full well the benefits of dealing with someone like Charlie who tells it like it is rather than how he thinks you would like to hear it. Nothing is much worse than having the wheels start falling off and being too far away to do much about it.

BTDT as well, and also got the nearby bull****ting that was similarly annoying and difficult to do much about.

Charlie's no-nonsense attitude was definitely a positive from our perspective, along with his excellent reputation.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Thanks for the invite Tony - but you promised to help me rebuild my engine when you got your A&P!!! Guess you are on to plan C by now!!!

And thanks for that datapoint Mike . . . if a shop stands behind its work then there should not be any of these datapoints - thats what important about those datapoints - it tells you about the mindset of the shop . . .

You might need your engine before I have my Power Plant.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

FWIW, a friend of mine used Tim's out of Long Beach. Seems to be happy with the result.