Engine Failure near ACY- Safety tip

[AdamZ]

Just last week a friend and CFI at Wings had an engine failure in his fixed gear saratoga at 4000' in Solid IMC. He was right seat and his co-owner was left seat.

They were at top of the climb out from ACY which is only 75' MSL when as he put it four of the six cylinders stopped making heat. Through supurb piloting they got the plane turned around and landed back at ACY on roll out the remaining 2 cylinders died.

What really freaked me out was that I flew in this plane just two weeks ago.

Anyway my friend presented a safety breifing yesterday regarding the incident to some pilots active in Angel Flight East and one of them had an excellent suggeston that I thought I would pass on.

He says that when he plugs a flight plan in his GPS he adds the departure airport to the end of the flight plan after his desitination airport and then loads an approach. In the event of an emergency on departure he can activate the approach to assist in getting back on the ground safely at the departure field. Should it not be deleted you can just delete it from the GPS flight plan once in cruise.

My CFII taught me to plug in my departure fields ILS for the same purpose.

Just a good saftey tip I wanted to pass on.

 

[GMascelli]

Thanks Adam, good tip and easy to do. Glad it all worked out for the pilots.

 

[Ted]

At all points in your flight, especially IFR, you should know where your nearest airport is and be in a position where you can get to it. GPS makes this a lot easier, but my assumption upon taking off is that I have to go do the nearest approach to get back into my airport or else to another one nearby.

Excellent work gliding that brick of a plane back in!

 

[TMetzinger]

I like this tip.

 

[Dan Thomas]

... when as he put it four of the six cylinders stopped making heat. Through supurb piloting they got the plane turned around and landed back at ACY on roll out the remaining 2 cylinders died.

I can't see two cylinders being of any use at all; they're dragging four dead cylinders along and trying to turn the prop, too. I'd like to know what happened to that engine to make so many cylinders quit simultaneously; was it a broken camshaft?

Dan

 

[Anthony]

Yikes! Do you know the cause?

Good tip, and glad they had enough altitude to make the turn.

 

[Skylane81E]

I can't see two cylinders being of any use at all; they're dragging four dead cylinders along and trying to turn the prop, too. I'd like to know what happened to that engine to make so many cylinders quit simultaneously; was it a broken camshaft?

Dan

First thought that jummped into my head

Interested to hear the cause and glad some good piloting saved the day.

 

[AdamZ]

I can't see two cylinders being of any use at all; they're dragging four dead cylinders along and trying to turn the prop, too. I'd like to know what happened to that engine to make so many cylinders quit simultaneously; was it a broken camshaft?

Dan

Yeah those were my thoughts. Not sure of the cause but will report back as soon as I find out.

 

[ajstoner21]

Good Tip - I've heard this one before. I too am curious about what caused the failure.

 

[AdamZ]

So my friend reports that it looks like a valve broke got sucked in the intake and out into the other cylinders ( is that even possible?) as four of the six crapped out.

 

[flyingron]

On the 480, NRST DIRECT DEST is a pretty fast key sequence and works even if the engine conks out with another airport that's closer.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

So my friend reports that it looks like a valve broke got sucked in the intake and out into the other cylinders ( is that even possible?) as four of the six crapped out.

I experienced a similar problem a few months ago...a valve got stuck and the whole thing started to vibrate like hell... the engine's performance was severely affected and barely provided 200 ft/min of climb rate.

Not sure why a stuck valve makes such a mess....I guess it gets the camshaft out of balance affecting the connecting rods and the crankshaft as well...

Any ideas ?

 

[ronnieh]

Stuck valve and broke valve two different things. Pieces of the valve can indeed migrate out into the intake runner and sucked into other cylinders.

 

[Skylane81E]

So my friend reports that it looks like a valve broke got sucked in the intake and out into the other cylinders ( is that even possible?) as four of the six crapped out.

Yep, and that's not even the worst thing that can happen with stuck valves

 

[Skylane81E]

Not sure why a stuck valve makes such a mess....I guess it gets the camshaft out of balance affecting the connecting rods and the crankshaft as well...

Any ideas ?

Shut down a cylinder or two and the engine will shake like hell. The engine is still mechanicly balanced but the airpump is now pumping unevenly.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Stuck valve and broke valve two different things. Pieces of the valve can indeed migrate out into the intake runner and sucked into other cylinders.

Pieces of valve, and pieces of aluminum head and piston, too. And if it was an intake valve it lets the other cylinders suck not only the garbage out into the intake manifold but also exhaust gases that are let into that cylinder when the exhaust opens. Some of those gases are still burning and they ignite the air/fuel mix in the intake so the other cylinders have nothing to burn.

Dan

 

[Skylane81E]

Pieces of valve, and pieces of aluminum head and piston, too. And if it was an intake valve it lets the other cylinders suck not only the garbage out into the intake manifold but also exhaust gases that are let into that cylinder when the exhaust opens. Some of those gases are still burning and they ignite the air/fuel mix in the intake so the other cylinders have nothing to burn.

Dan

Not to mention that induction tubes aren't built to burn fuel. Being simple things there isn't much on an airplane engine that you don't NEED so when things start to go sideways in there they turn your shorts brown in a hurry.

 

[rjsmith47]

I can't see two cylinders being of any use at all; they're dragging four dead cylinders along and trying to turn the prop, too. I'd like to know what happened to that engine to make so many cylinders quit simultaneously; was it a broken camshaft?

Dan

Better two than none, in my book (and I was in the right seat on that flight). With two we could hold level flight at 80kts. Fortunately we didn't have to do so for too long, not knowing how much longer those two would hold up. Problem was broken intake valve, number 3 cylinder. Parts get sucked out through intake manifold and distributed through other cylinders.