Emergency Fire Procedures

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
Can anyone help explain the logic of Step #11 in the attached?
 

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Just a guess. If there was to be an attempt to move the plane away from others you couldn't do it with the brakes on.
 
Keep in mind that this step is BEFORE using the extinguisher again (assuming 1st attempt didn't work).
 
Jaybird180 said:
Keep in mind that this step is BEFORE using the extinguisher again (assuming 1st attempt didn't work).
Click to expand...

I'm puzzled by the two mentions of the fire extinguisher:

"9. Fire Extinguisher -- ACTIVATE"

"13. Fire -- EXTINGUISH using fire extinguisher, wool blanket, or dirt"

What's the difference between ACTIVATE and EXTINGUISH? And why the blanket or dirt option the 2nd time but not the 1st?
 
NoHeat said:
I'm puzzled by the two mentions of the fire extinguisher:

"9. Fire Extinguisher -- ACTIVATE"

"13. Fire -- EXTINGUISH using fire extinguisher, wool blanket, or dirt"

What's the difference between ACTIVATE and EXTINGUISH? And why the blanket or dirt option the 2nd time but not the 1st?
Click to expand...


Subsequent time you not trying to keep the paint clean....
 
NoHeat said:
"9. Fire Extinguisher -- ACTIVATE"
"13. Fire -- EXTINGUISH using fire extinguisher, wool blanket, or dirt"
What's the difference between ACTIVATE and EXTINGUISH? And why the blanket or dirt option the 2nd time but not the 1st?
Click to expand...

Hey, Cold:

One is for when you have a bottle installed. Some here have a bottle in the eng compartment....like a POA Bonanza I know. The other (blanket etc.) is for when you are out on the ramp.
 
Only guess I have is to ensure the brake system is depressurized so a rupture of the brake line doesn't create a blow torch right by the door through which you are about to egress, brake fluid being pretty flammable.

Or maybe it's so they can push it off the edge of the flight deck.:dunno:
 
AirDC said:
Does #1 really work?
Click to expand...

You betcha... I actually saw an engine fire like that once. A guy came in at Oshkosh one year and stalled the thing hot on the turn to taxiway P. He wasn't good on his hot start and the next thing we see is flames coming out around the exhaust stacks. Fortunately, a cooler head than mine yelled and gestured to the guy to keep cranking and the fire did get sucked back up.
 
Ron Levy said:
Only guess I have is to ensure the brake system is depressurized so a rupture of the brake line doesn't create a blow torch right by the door through which you are about to egress, brake fluid being pretty flammable.

Or maybe it's so they can push it off the edge of the flight deck.:dunno:
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This would make sense, except the parking brake is cable actuated.
 
yes a cable goes to the brake master cylinder which is why both brake pedals depress when you actuate the parking brake. not like your car where the parking/emergency brake is completely independent of the brake pedal system.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This would make sense, except the parking brake is cable actuated.
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Depends on the plane and the vintage. Early C-172s only locked the pushrod to the master cylinder and held the pressure on the lines.

John
 
I posed this question elsewhere and got this response, thoughts?


Doug said:
Possibly because you wouldn't want to have to get back in the plane to do it later?
Click to expand...
 
Nobody posted this so I'll take a stab.

Perhaps, this is a result of the checklist being so generic. It's all encompassing for all fires on the ground. There are many reasons for fires on the ground and one is super hot brakes after landing. Maybe they have you release the brakes to aid in cooling and putting out a brake fire?

Just a thought. Moving the burning plane sounds like a good idea too if needed.



I remember back in primary training we had a student catch the engine compartment on fire during engine start. The student knew he wanted a fire extinguisher pronto. The battery was on and so he had a direct radio line to the flight line dispatch. He figured, "here's a problem, let's reach out for help. Where to find an extinguisher though...Oh, I know!"

He keyed the radio and said...

"Dispatch! This is Cherokee 123 and am ON FIRE! Send the fuel truck over to spot 85 RIGHT NOW! I NEED THE EXTINGUISHER!!!"


...The fuel truck did not respond. The fire did get put out...
 
I think it's also important to 1) have access to a working extinguisher, and b) to know how to use it. I've seen some strange actuating handles on extinguishers and fire-bottles before - it pretty much defeats the purpose if you have to read the directions to know how each one is supposed to operate.
 
The brakes aren't generating any heat when they're locked. I'm guessing its the.. move plane away from other planes deal


I have a friend who insists on reading the checklists out loudly and word for word. Great idea in a complex airplane or for a new pilot - but in a 152 that you have a lot of time in, kinda funny. I'm laughing very hard right now trying to picture him reading this checklist while the plane is on fire. I know he would try.

Though this is kinda arbitrary it makes sense to know why each and every item is included on the checklist. You are more likely to remember them and if you do forget a step you will recognize the symptom of forgetting the step and can easily troubleshoot. There are some mechanically inept folks out there who don't understand systems well enough to know why many items are included on the checklist.
 
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dell30rb said:
The brakes aren't generating any heat when they're locked. I'm guessing its the.. move plane away from other planes deal
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So when you grab a super hot potato you don't let go right? There's no heat being generated so you just hold on tight, right?

Or maybe letting go of that hot potato lets air circulate between your hand and the potato and keeps your hand temp within limits.

Just a thought.
 
A slight diversion but similar topic so not quite a thread hijack.

Most checklists or at least general practice call for seat belts fastened before engine start. My Navy training still overrides this for me. Seat belts fastened AFTER engine start and no fires.

Anyone else?
 
Most checklists or at least general practice call for seat belts fastened before engine start. My Navy training still overrides this for me. Seat belts fastened AFTER engine start and no fires.
Anyone else?
Click to expand...

Makes sense Greg, although I have not been doing it.
 
gkainz said:
A slight diversion but similar topic so not quite a thread hijack.

Most checklists or at least general practice call for seat belts fastened before engine start. My Navy training still overrides this for me. Seat belts fastened AFTER engine start and no fires.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...

I've thought about that before but since I have to slide quite a ways up and then do the Cessna butt wiggle for locking my tookus in place for self-preservation at takeoff, I figure the on-board extinguisher is my best option for a quick egress. Use it on the way out.

Pax are harder. You gotta make sure they're egressing and not panicked to the point they forget to unbelt before bailing yourself.
 
gkainz said:
A slight diversion but similar topic so not quite a thread hijack.

Most checklists or at least general practice call for seat belts fastened before engine start. My Navy training still overrides this for me. Seat belts fastened AFTER engine start and no fires.

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
Legally tricky. If the aircraft budges and the PIC is unlatched then it's a FAR violation.
 
NoHeat said:
I'm puzzled by the two mentions of the fire extinguisher:

"9. Fire Extinguisher -- ACTIVATE"

"13. Fire -- EXTINGUISH using fire extinguisher, wool blanket, or dirt"

What's the difference between ACTIVATE and EXTINGUISH? And why the blanket or dirt option the 2nd time but not the 1st?
Click to expand...

Not sure, did they install a system in the engine compartment?
 
DavidWhite said:
When you have a fire or smoke in the cockpit checklists are the last things on your mind.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you've BTDT!

Of course, that's why they have the bolded items for memorization. You did pretty well on that, as I recall!
 
At some point, if the fire isn't going out, you'd be best off to just run and not mess with trying to put it out with a blanket or drag it across the ramp. Put dirt on it? Seriously? This is why they made insurance. Get the hell away from it.
 
It is so the plane can be moved easily away from other planes/hazards.

I once witnessed a boat fire at the gas dock at our marina. A ~25' cruiser had just finished filling up and the (expletive, deleted) "captain" of that vessel failed to adequately vent the engine compartment before starting up. Presto, instant fire, building quickly. Lucky him, he and his passenger were able to safely jump to the fuel dock while quick hands untied the boat and pushed it as hard as they could away from the dock. It took about 5 minutes for it to burn to the waterline. We figured the guys who pushed that boat off the dock saved at least six 40' - 50' sport fishing boats from becoming fiberglass torches.

The cranking the engine trick to draw the fire into the engine works - I've seen it happen. The better option is to not flood the engine in the first place.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
It is so the plane can be moved easily away from other planes/hazards.

I once witnessed a boat fire at the gas dock at our marina. A ~25' cruiser had just finished filling up and the (expletive, deleted) "captain" of that vessel failed to adequately vent the engine compartment before starting up. Presto, instant fire, building quickly. Lucky him, he and his passenger were able to safely jump to the fuel dock while quick hands untied the boat and pushed it as hard as they could away from the dock. It took about 5 minutes for it to burn to the waterline. We figured the guys who pushed that boat off the dock saved at least six 40' - 50' sport fishing boats from becoming fiberglass torches.

The cranking the engine trick to draw the fire into the engine works - I've seen it happen. The better option is to not flood the engine in the first place.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Now that wasn't needed. I had nothing to do with that boat fire.



(dumb joke...sorry)
 
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