ELT question

DC34ME

Pre-takeoff checklist
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DC34ME
Hello you mechanics at POA (or anyone that has info to add) I have an ELT question.

I was doing a pre-buy on a 1974 C150 today with my A&P. He checked over everything including an ELT test. When he did the G test he shook the ELT to make it turn on. It worked fine until he turned it upside down, it then turned off. He then tilted it left and right and it would turn on and off. He told me to tell the mechanic that is doing the annual inspection this week.

What can be done with an intermittent ELT but replace it? I don't know how they work, can they (an A&P) fix it, or does it have to be sent off?

Any advice appreciated.
 
Bottom line replace the ELT it is shot and I do not beleive any shop will attempt to fix it. Below is some information you may not be aware of.

On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [1] Organization (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5 MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). This means that pilots flying aircraft equipped with 121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.

Why is this happening?
Although lives have been saved by 121.5 MHz ELTs, the downside has been their propensity to generate false alerts (approximately 98 percent of all 121.5 MHz alerts are false), and their failure to provide rescue forces with timely and accurate crash location data. Both of which actually delay rescue efforts and have a direct effect on an individual's chance for survival. Rescue forces have to respond to all 121.5 MHz alerts to determine if they are real distress alerts or if they are being generated by an interferer, an inadvertent activation (by the owner) or equipment failure.

Is there an alternative?
Yes, the Cospas-Sarsat System (U.S. included) has been and will continue processing emergency signals transmitted by 406 MHz ELTs. These 5 Watt digital beacons transmit a much stronger signal, are more accurate, verifiable and traceable to the registered beacon owner (406 MHz ELTs must be registered by the owner in accordance with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulation). Registration allows the search and rescue authorities to contact the beacon owner, or his or her designated alternate by telephone to determine if a real emergency exists. Therefore, a simple telephone call often solves a 406 MHz alerts without launching costly and limited search and rescue resources, which would have to be done for a 121.5 MHz alert. For these reasons, the search and rescue community is encouraging aircraft owners to consider retrofit of 406 MHz ELTs or at a minimum, consider the purchase of a handheld 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) which can be carried in the cockpit while continuing to maintain a fixed 121.5 MHz ELT mounted in the aircraft's tail.

Remember, after February 1, 2009, the world-wide Cospas-Sarsat satellite system will no longer process 121.5 MHz alert signals. Pilots involved in aircraft accidents in remote areas will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations to hear emergency ELT distress signals. For further information concerning the termination of 121.5 MHz data processing visit www.sarsat.noaa.gov

[1] The Cospas-Sarsat Organization provides a satellite based world-wide monitoring system that detects and locates distress signals transmitted by Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs), Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons (EPIRBs) and Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs). The system includes space and ground segments which process the signals received from the beacon source and forwards the distress alert data to the appropriate RescueCoordinationCenter for action.
 
If you want to repair your 121.5 MHz unit you can send them to Meryl Inc at 203-237-8811. They also have exchange units. If you want a Artex or Narco units I have a shelf full of them, you just pay the shipping. It would be a good time to switch to a 406 MHz unit. On our Malibu and 172 I have installed the Artex ME406 units.

Kevin
 
I agree that from here on, if your ELT needs significant repair, it's a better idea to replace it with a new 406 unit.
 
Yeah the 121.5 MHz ELT is just dead weight now, so looking into the 406. Thanks for the advice, and kmead, I may PM you if I go with another 121.5. Looks like the one in the plane works when mounted in its tray, even has a switch on the panel to check it. Still waiting to see what the A&P has to say. For $150 I can get a new 121.5 ELT from Spruce East, a 30 min. drive for me to pick it up. I will pay for it because after I buy the plane I need to use the former owners hangar till mine is built at KOPN. He isn't charging me the $300 a month for that so I think it's a good trade off.
 
I wouldn't pay any money for a 121.5 ELT, That is why they are so cheap.
The 406's should be available for as low as $600 is a couple months and are much more effective.

We recently had a 182 make an emergency landing on a back country road. The plane sat there for a week before they could retrieve it. 24 hrs after the landing the 121.5 ELT activated. It took Search and rescue 3 days to figure out the ELT was in the same airplane that they knew had landed there.

With a 406 ELT they would have probably figured it out with an hour of it going off.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I understand the need for a 406 ELT. For now, to be legal all I need is a 121.5. It's a Cessna 150, will be flown mostly around middle Georgia and north Florida, and when cross country will be operated on an IFR (though not IMC) flight plan. Does the benefit outweigh the cost with this mission in mind?

I know that legal isn't always safe, but I accept the risk I won't be found for 3 days in a south Georgia swamp. Hell if I survived the crash a gator would get me within an hour or two.

If the ELT wasn't inop in the plane, I wouldn't even think of upgrading it. In 6 months the cost will come down and I may upgrade then.

Thanks again for the advice
 
The 406's should be available for as low as $600 is a couple months and are much more effective.

I heard that 18 months ago when my battery was due for replacement in '08. Had the 406 been available at that price ("any day now), I would have done it at annual (the remote switch needs to be rewired to replace the 121.5 unit in my plane). Likewise the annual in the Fall of 2009.
 
I understand the need for a 406 ELT. For now, to be legal all I need is a 121.5. It's a Cessna 150, will be flown mostly around middle Georgia and north Florida, and when cross country will be operated on an IFR (though not IMC) flight plan. Does the benefit outweigh the cost with this mission in mind?

I know that legal isn't always safe, but I accept the risk I won't be found for 3 days in a south Georgia swamp. Hell if I survived the crash a gator would get me within an hour or two.

If the ELT wasn't inop in the plane, I wouldn't even think of upgrading it. In 6 months the cost will come down and I may upgrade then.

Thanks again for the advice

Do you really need an ELT?

91.207

f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely within a 50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations began;
 
I understand the need for a 406 ELT. For now, to be legal all I need is a 121.5. It's a Cessna 150, will be flown mostly around middle Georgia and north Florida, and when cross country will be operated on an IFR (though not IMC) flight plan. Does the benefit outweigh the cost with this mission in mind?

I know that legal isn't always safe, but I accept the risk I won't be found for 3 days in a south Georgia swamp. Hell if I survived the crash a gator would get me within an hour or two.

If the ELT wasn't inop in the plane, I wouldn't even think of upgrading it. In 6 months the cost will come down and I may upgrade then.

Thanks again for the advice

I certainly understand the cost issue. As stated above, could you legally go for a few months without an ELT?

I am not required to carry an ELT in my sailplane, but last year I finally decide to purchase a SPOT Messenger to carry with me. The usefulness of the 121.5 ELT was Questionable and the cost of the 406 ELT was prohibitive. While the SPOT does have it's limitations mostly not being structurally mounted to the aircraft and having no automatic activation feature It seemed like a much better option than a 121.5 ELT. Also the SPOT can be used for other activities such as Driving, Boating, Hiking, Etc.

Perhaps your best option would be get a used 121.5 ELT for a cheap as you can, just to keep you legal and then carry a SPOT with you when you fly.

Brian

Edit: Note that the SPOTs usefulness is really in the Optional Tracking Feature, so that if you go down it will narrow the search area even if you can't manually activate it. Plus the tracking feature allows your friends or releatives to check that you ok, without contacting you.
 
Yeah the 121.5 MHz ELT is just dead weight now,
It's a lot more than that, as the only thing you've lost is satellite detection. Airliners and everyone else monitoring 121.5 as they go fly (and that's a lot more people now than pre-9/11) will hear your ELT and report it, and CAP and other SAR forces still have VHF DF gear to triangulate/home in on your 121.5 signal. Of course, there are now many advantages to having a newer 406 unit rather than an older 121.5/243.0-only unit, but an ELT without 406 capability is hardly "just dead weight."
 
It took Search and rescue 3 days to figure out the ELT was in the same airplane that they knew had landed there.

We'll I'm glad they spent 3 days making sure it was the airplane they knew about and did not just "sign it off" after the first hour and left someone in the wild just a half mile away.


yes.. the new ELT would have the ID Code in the transmission and they would have known it was the same one.

So.. what set it off after 3 days?
 
I couldn't help but notice that no one had mentioned the use of a PLB. Not that it replaces the automatic activation of an ELT but it does send an accurate location directly to search and rescue within about 2 minutes. This is far superior to SPOT for emergency services. There is a new one on the market that costs about $290. I saw it on Prepared Pilot website called the Kannad XS-4. Its small enough to fit in a vest pocket. Anyone looked into these?
 
I couldn't help but notice that no one had mentioned the use of a PLB. Not that it replaces the automatic activation of an ELT but it does send an accurate location directly to search and rescue within about 2 minutes. This is far superior to SPOT for emergency services. There is a new one on the market that costs about $290. I saw it on Prepared Pilot website called the Kannad XS-4. Its small enough to fit in a vest pocket. Anyone looked into these?

I think PLB's are great IF they get activated.

I can think of numerous scenarios where I wouldn't have time to activate one if an emergency occurred. Let's say I lost power on takeoff from my home field and went into the trees. At low altitude, I'd probably be much more occupied in getting a restart, flying the airplane, and/or making the "impossible turn" than in firing up the PLB.

That's where the ELT helps - it automatically activates...sometimes.
 
I think PLB's are great IF they get activated.

I can think of numerous scenarios where I wouldn't have time to activate one if an emergency occurred. Let's say I lost power on takeoff from my home field and went into the trees. At low altitude, I'd probably be much more occupied in getting a restart, flying the airplane, and/or making the "impossible turn" than in firing up the PLB.

That's where the ELT helps - it automatically activates...sometimes.

PLBs in reality do not meet the requirements of FAR 91.207.

But that does not mean that it isn't a great idea to carry one.
 
Statistically, ELT's are useless... Using one to recover a dead body does not count...

The percentage of pilots who have actually been 'saved' after a crash due to being located by the ELT signal is miniscule... Your odds of winning at Las Vegas vastly exceed your odds of being saved by an ELT...

denny-o
 
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