Dual instruction question

dell30rb

dell30rb

Final Approach
Joined
May 18, 2011
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Raleigh NC
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Display name:
Ren
I have the opportunity to fly with a CFII on a flight for pleasure with our wives / girlfriends as passengers. We are going to take a weekend trip in an aircraft that belongs to my flying club. If its not too much trouble (it may be) I'm trying to get him named on our club's insurance policy so we can file and fly an IFR flight plan on our trip and hopefully get some actual IMC.

Since he is technically PIC if we file IFR, can I still accept a share of the cost for airplane rental from my passengers during the flight?

Also if this is not acceptable, is it okay for passengers to ride along on an instructional flight? I think the answer is yes for this one, but would like a second opinion :)

Thanks

Ren
 
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Passengers are definitely ok.

As far as the cost sharing goes, I don't know, but I really wouldn't worry about it.
 
He may qualify under your insurance's "open pilot" clause. Give your Agent a call.

Ours only requires 500 hours and 10 in type, along with (preferably written, especially if you're dead after some freak accident -- not likely, but hey... how would they know?) authorization for him to act as PIC.

We've also got a temporary authorization for a CFI once when someone was out of currency, so the CFI coukd act as PIC for a BFR, with just a phone call and a faxed letter. Didn't change the rate at all.

Defintely worth a phone call to your insurance Agent.
 
Thanks guys. Our club is pretty large and has a "only authorized instructors" policy. However the club is non profit and member owned. Our chief cfi is a great guy but he is busy and has been hinting that its probably too much of a pita to get my friend as an authorized instructor. Our current instructors charge reasonable rates and with a few exceptions are all very competent. But i am very interested in free instruction with an instructor who is also experienced and competent, and the ability to combine instructional flights with pleasure flights is also appealing
 
Absolutely. I fly enough, if i could find one or two partners it would be very affordable for me.

I'm buying my dad an hour of flight time and instruction in a 172 for his birthday next week. He has about 1,000 hours and owned a 172rg until i was abou 10 years old. Hope he gets the bug again and wants to buy an airplane with me.

I've taken him up a few times since I got my ticket and he really enjoyed it. I think he may be concerned about the medical since he is in his 60's... Even though he is in good shape.
 
First, if he's not an authorized club instructor, the whole idea of him being along as anything but a passenger is a nonstarter other than you being PIC and your pal being only a passenger. As for cost-sharing, you can accept pro-rata shares of the cost of the flight from any of your passengers while you receive training as long as you all have "common purpose," which it appears you do.
 
Another question:

I have a friend who I have flown with several times now that is comm and instrument rated and owns an IFR certified airplane. Is it legal for me to fly left seat in his airplane on an IFR flight plan with him as PIC? He offered. He does not have his cfi rating but he is comfortable flying in the right seat in his aircraft and I know for a fact that he has a lot of right-seat hours in IMC in this airplane.
 
yes perfectly legal. PIC is a state of mind not a location in the airplane.
 
tonycondon said:
yes perfectly legal. PIC is a state of mind not a location in the airplane.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I thought it was legal. I know its generally inadvisable, however this seems like an okay exception. I can log the time as actual IMC when I am flying the plane correct?
 
tonycondon said:
yes perfectly legal. PIC is a state of mind not a location in the airplane.
Click to expand...
Well, to an extent. The FAA requires that the PIC occupy a control seat. You can't be PIC from the back seat of a side-by-side airplane unless someone's put a third set of controls back there. And you can log it as "actual instrument time," not "IMC," which means something else. See this post for more details.
 
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dell30rb said:
Thanks. I thought it was legal. I know its generally inadvisable, however this seems like an okay exception. I can log the time as actual IMC when I am flying the plane correct?
Click to expand...

you can log PIC anytime you are sole manipulator in a category/class in which you are rated
 
tonycondon said:
you can log PIC anytime you are sole manipulator in a category/class in which you are rated
Click to expand...


Thanks, I understand, was just checking to make sure I could in IMC since I am not instrument rated.
 
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dell30rb said:
Thanks, I understand, was just checking to make sure I could in IMC since I am not instrument rated.
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The issue is not whether you're in VMC/IMC, but whether or not you're in "actual instrument conditions." See the post linked in my post #11 above. But yes, if you're the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated and in actual instrument conditions, you can log it as actual instrument time.
 
Thanks, I read the post and now have an understanding of "actual" versus IMC. Didn't even know there was a difference before today. It looks pretty soupy tonight so I think i'll be able to log some good time in actual imc.
 
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