Does AOPA act like a union organization?

N918KT

N918KT

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Hello all again. Even though AOPA is technically not a union organization since it does not represent a certain trade profession, it does seem to act like a union, since it does advocacy and lobbying for GA.

What do you think? Does AOPA act like a union or quasi-union organization?
 
Not really ,they may try but they're not even close to the thug tactics of a true union org.
 
N918KT said:
Hello all again. Even though AOPA is technically not a union organization since it does not represent a certain trade profession, it does seem to act like a union, since it does advocacy and lobbying for GA.

What do you think? Does AOPA act like a union or quasi-union organization?
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What's your point?
What does it matter?
 
Definitely not a union. No forced dues and not forcing a company to pay salaries of their leadership. Plus as already said not quite the level of thug tactics.
 
N918KT said:
Hello all again. Even though AOPA is technically not a union organization since it does not represent a certain trade profession, it does seem to act like a union, since it does advocacy and lobbying for GA.



What do you think? Does AOPA act like a union or quasi-union organization?
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I don't really get the question -- it's an advocacy group for a particular "special interest" just like thousands of others. A union is a collective organization of employees. I mean, they both have members and goals, but that's about it...
 
It's my experience that there's not much "thuggery" remaining in the unions, at least not in the construction unions (except in Chicago).

I did a lot of union work in southern Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan. With rare exception, all were a pleasure to work with and very professional.

All the thugs have left the unions and gone to work for the DHS.
 
*peeks head in*

WTF?!?!?

*leaves*
 
N918KT said:
Does AOPA act like a union or quasi-union organization?
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No.

POA says just No is too short. But I'm not putting a word in front of it.
 
N918KT said:
Hello all again. Even though AOPA is technically not a union organization since it does not represent a certain trade profession, it does seem to act like a union, since it does advocacy and lobbying for GA.

What do you think? Does AOPA act like a union or quasi-union organization?
Click to expand...

Yes. In the sense that they are large enough organization to have evolved into serving themselves before their constituency. 'Very wise man once said some people rob you with a fountain pen...'
 
It's more akin to a professional society than a union.

Unions do collective bargaining for wages. No analog there to the AOPA.

By professional societies, I mean something like the American Chemical Society, for chemists. They have publications & gatherings, do advocacy, and peddle insurance. Which sounds like AOPA.

The analogy still isn't that close, though. The membership has a different kind of motivation: AOPA members are more likely to be hobbyists.
 
I mean that I know AOPA is really not a union, but I am just making an observation that in some ways AOPA does act somewhat like a union. I think there are parts of AOPA which resembles a union and other parts which AOPA does not resemble a union, even if AOPA is really not a union.
 
AOPA is an affinity-group marketing operation, a specialty magazine publisher and a special interest lobbying group. It also offers some constituent services to members. But clearly, it is not a professional organization nor is it a union representing employees.

The Experimental Aircraft Association is an organization-in-transition to the same status as AOPA. I doubt it will be long.

As a former member of what was once a true professional organization, (American Institute of Certified Public Accountants), I lament the progression from focused organizations to group affinity marketing operations that seem to exist only to pay professional staff and sell credit cards and insurance.

What are you going to do?

Scott
 
N918KT said:
I mean that I know AOPA is really not a union, but I am just making an observation that in some ways AOPA does act somewhat like a union. I think there are parts of AOPA which resembles a union and other parts which AOPA does not resemble a union, even if AOPA is really not a union.
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Which parts "act somewhat like a union"?. Be specific.

What parts "resemble a union"? Be specific.
 
N918KT said:
I mean that I know AOPA is really not a union, but I am just making an observation that in some ways AOPA does act somewhat like a union. I think there are parts of AOPA which resembles a union and other parts which AOPA does not resemble a union, even if AOPA is really not a union.
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I demand to be paid more to fly my airplane!



Kevin, are you sure you understand what a union does?
 
Chew keep using dat word. I do no' think it means what you think it means.
 
They are exactly the same as a union, in that a union takes dues and serves no purpose to anyone that is a member except to rabble rouse and claim credit for work so that they can convince others to donate money to their cause.

Other than that, no, they do not represent GA in any way, shape or form.
 
These organizations all start with good intentions - AOPA, EAA, NRA, and so on. They advocate for some common hobby/interest/love/avocation. And usually in the early going they forge good relations with the ruling political class (usually in DC but can be state and local) and do good things for the hobby.

Then volunteers who becmae movers and shakers decide they either have to be paid something for the long hours they put in or go get a second job to keep momma happy. So the early movers and shakers get paid while the hoi polloi still volunteer their time for free.
Along the way they hold their annual meetings/conventions/publications/whatever and these go from losing money in the beginning to making it. Well, since there is now a big wad of cash that comes in there has to be accountability. So more people get paid for that function.
At some point, those who are now working full time (or close to it) decide that they need insurance, paid vacations, retirement bennies - aaaand since the organization now has many hundreds of thousands of dollars coming in they change the structure from a club to a corporation and the board votes benefits for one and all (except the hoi polloi doing 99% of the grunt work).

Case in point is the Big-O. I go back to the early days at Rockford with Paul P. We put paper on the folding tables and policed the latrine ourselves. Then it got too big and went to Oshkosh. We volunteers parked planes and emptied garbage cans, yadda, yadda - and still do. But somewhere along the way The P's quit working for a living and they became The Fly-In. Then it got a third name change, became a corporation with employees who have mortgages and children going to college - and became the largest fly-in in the world. Now, the biggest parts of the wads of cash coming in has to be allocated to salaries and benefits. At some point I quit volunteering.

The last straw came when on a whim the wife and I jumped into the plane and went to the Big-O a dozen years or so back. At the gate I asked for two day pass's and an overnight camping under the plane. Well, I did not have my member card with me and they did not feel inclined to look up my name and address to verify my membership. Long story short I paid them $135 for a two day pass for us and to sleep under the wing for one night. I have not been back since and will not be back and I did not renew my membership when it came due a few years after that. (shrug) I doubt they have even noticed I am gone since their time is fully occupied with benefits and salaries.
 
They live fat off a membership they claim to represent the interests off, that part is like a union, but not much else.
 
Henning said:
They live fat off a membership they claim to represent the interests off, that part is like a union, but not much else.
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They also claim to "represent" a membership that has no meaningful input into the policies they represent.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Which parts "act somewhat like a union"?. Be specific.

What parts "resemble a union"? Be specific.
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To me, I think the only thing that resembles a union is the advocacy and lobbying for GA. Isn't that what a union partly does? Other than that we do not represent a particular trade or profession, so that part of AOPA does not resemble a union.
 
AOPA runs like any PAC today where those sending in money get less than 20 cents of their dollar.
 
JeffDG said:
They also claim to "represent" a membership that has no meaningful input into the policies they represent.
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I always thought that the things AOPA fights for were things that myself and other pilots I know felt equally strong about.

Perfect example:
User Fees - this seems to come up in each year's FAA budget talks and AOPA has been there since day 1 fighting against it. I think without a collective voice like AOPA, we all might have already started getting bills in the mail every time we clicked the mic to talk to ATC. That's not to say we won't see them at some time in the future, but the fight has been going on for at least 10 years.

I always liked Phil Boyer, who reigned a few years ago as AOPA President after serving the position for nearly 20 years. I was able to talk to him at one of the AOPA Open Houses in Frederick one year, and again at Sun n Fun. A very approachable, down to earth fellow pilot.

He was a huge proponent, on the membership's behalf of, among several things, the General Aviation Revitalization Act. Without that, we may not have seen a re-growth in the GA manufacturing industry of New Piper, Cessna, etc. He, with AOPA's support, also pressed hard for the quick adoption of GPS, WAAS and ADS-B.

It never seemed like AOPA was acting in a vacuum, absent any input from the membership, in all those efforts.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Yes. In the sense that they are large enough organization to have evolved into serving themselves before their constituency. 'Very wise man once said some people rob you with a fountain pen...'
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That would, without question, make big banks unions. They proved not long ago that they are interested only in the "me first, quick profits" scenario. They not only used pens, they also lied a lot. No one of consequence has been jailed.
 
Banks get the same partial yes answer to the original question of "does aopa act like a union or quasi-union organization?" The original question does not work well because the word 'union' is positively or negatively charged in people's minds.
Jimmy cooper said:
That would, without question, make big banks unions. They proved not long ago that they are interested only in the "me first, quick profits" scenario. They not only used pens, they also lied a lot. No one of consequence has been jailed.
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AOPA would be more like a union if the FAA tried to "fire" me by suspending my certificate, but since I belong to AOPA, I wouldn't ever have to worry about such a thing because, I'm, well, union and the FAA wouldn't do a thing.
 
Like a union? No.
Like a private funding firm for the United States Postal Service? Yeah, that's the ticket.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
That would, without question, make big banks unions. They proved not long ago that they are interested only in the "me first, quick profits" scenario. They not only used pens, they also lied a lot. No one of consequence has been jailed.
Click to expand...

One executive level banker from Credit Suisse went to prison, one, and he clearly and with intent lied about the value of his investments.
 
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