Do you need renter's insurance?

mikea

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Hey, Rev. Ron, I know you know the most about this.

We were asked by some flight students if it's necessary to have aircraft renter's insurance.

I say yes because the FBO's insurance company can come after you for anything they paid out.

Dan says since CT has no fault that can't happen to him, and he'd only be liable for the FBO's $500 deductible, but then he would only be safe if he never flew outside of CT.

What say you?
 
mikea said:
Hey, Rev. Ron, I know you know the most about this.

We were asked by some flight students if it's necessary to have aircraft renter's insurance.

I say yes because the FBO's insurance company can come after you for anything they paid out.

Dan says since CT has no fault that can't happen to him, and he'd only be liable for the FBO's $500 deductible, but then he would only be safe if he never flew outside of CT.

What say you?

I agree get renters insurance. The flight school that I took a lot of my 141 courses insurance deductible is $5k.
 
mikea said:
Hey, Rev. Ron, I know you know the most about this.

We were asked by some flight students if it's necessary to have aircraft renter's insurance.

I say yes because the FBO's insurance company can come after you for anything they paid out.

Dan says since CT has no fault that can't happen to him, and he'd only be liable for the FBO's $500 deductible, but then he would only be safe if he never flew outside of CT.

What say you?

My $.02.

When I rented I never thought that renters insurance was worth it. I set aside the FBOs deductible just in case and I already carried a liability policy. So any extra money on insurance was redundant.
 
mikea said:
Hey, Rev. Ron, I know you know the most about this.

We were asked by some flight students if it's necessary to have aircraft renter's insurance.

I say yes because the FBO's insurance company can come after you for anything they paid out.

Dan says since CT has no fault that can't happen to him, and he'd only be liable for the FBO's $500 deductible, but then he would only be safe if he never flew outside of CT.

What say you?

CT may be different that FL but the way I understand that no fault works (confirmed by experience) is that the insurance company will pay the insured for the damages no matter who was at fault. But then the insurance company can then go after the at fault party for re-imbursement. Which means that the insurance company can demand that the renter pay for the full amount of the damages.
 
Does CT's no-fault apply to aviation?

The FBO's insurance covers the FBO. If a renter causes an accident, the insurance company will pay the FBO and potentially come after the student for its loss. This is called subrogation and is the reason that renters' insurance is usually a good idea.
 
I'm no expert on Connecticut law, so I can't speak to the specific issue of whether Connecticut law prevents the FBO's insurer from collecting more than the deductible from the renter if the airplane is damaged and the insurance pays off. Generally speaking, "no fault" insurance law means that when there is an auto accident, and both drivers have their own insurance, the question of who's at fault is not an issue. Each driver claims against his own insurance company and each company pays its policyholder. This prevents the crossfiling of claims by each driver against the other's insurer, and cuts the expense of litigation to determine which insurer will pay both drivers. The idea is that given the large pool of policyholders and accidents, the payoffs will even out in the long run for the insurer, and there's no drawn-out haggling over whose fault it is before the claims are paid to the policyholders. But I don't see how such a law would affect the case of an uninsured pilot wrecking someone else's airplane. Therefore, I wouldn't bet my assets on it without checking with a Connecticut-licensed attorney.

Further, whether or not the insurer can subrogate against the pilot for any claims paid off to the FBO for the damage to the plane, any third party in the accident (either a passenger or someone out side the plane) can still sue the pilot directly for injuries or property damage, and that "no-fault" law won't protect the renter who is not a named insured on the FBO's policy. In addition, the FBO may sue the renter for uninsured losses, such as economic loss for the time the airplane is unavailable because it's being repaired. Thus, even a "waiver of subrogation" clause in the FBO's policy may not protect the renter against suit by the FBO for uninsured losses.

Remember that in most cases, only the FBO is a "named insured" on the FBO's aircraft insurance policy (although a few FBO's pay extra to make the renters named insureds, too -- you pay for that with a higher rental rate, but it's worth it). While the renter may be an approved pilot under the Open Pilot Waiver clause, or even listed by name as a "named pilot," that only means that the insurance protecting the FBO is in force while the renter is flying the plane. It does not mean the insurance will protect the renter. If there's an accident, and a third party sues for damages, the insurance company will defend only the FBO and pay off claims only against the FBO -- in fact, the insurance company will probably do its best to paint the renter pilot as the party at fault in order to protect its policyholder FBO. Lacking a renter's insurance policy, the renter is usually on his own for legal defense and to pay off any damages awarded against him.

For these reasons, renter's insurance (actually, "non-owned aircraft" insurance, since it covers borrowing as well as renting) is essential protection for anyone renting or even borrowing other people's airplanes unless that pilot is judgement-proof (i.e., no assets worth taking or any expectation of assets in the future, or so rich that lawyers are on retainer and even a 7-digit award can be paid out of pocket).
 
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In addition to what Ron said; if you have your own insurance, as many aircraft owners have, that insurance may cover you when renting or using other aircraft. Read your policy or speak to your agent.

If you don't have anything to get, it wouldn't make much sense to sue you. May not be pleasant, but once you turn your pockets inside out in front of counsel, it should settle.

If you do have assets, it makes sense to protect them (unless you're a very charitable sort of fella).

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
In addition to what Ron said; if you have your own insurance, as many aircraft owners have, that insurance may cover you when renting or using other aircraft. Read your policy or speak to your agent.
The policies I've read only extend this coverage if you rent during a period while your insured aircraft is down for a covered repair due to an earlier loss.
 
Ken Ibold said:
The policies I've read only extend this coverage if you rent during a period while your insured aircraft is down for a covered repair due to an earlier loss.

Well, you made me pull my USAIG policy out.

My liability coverage would be after the policy on the plane I'm using, but extends through.
Other Aircraft: ....your liability and medical coverage under your policy will also cover you and the following people while you or they are lawfully using anothe aircraft....

As for hull coverage, it's in an endorcement to my policy and is limited to $100,000 (where my normal is $1,000,000 smooth). It limits coverage of personal effects in the plane.

I did ask a question of the agent which was interesting. On my last trip to Mexico, there was a prolonged period of time where I was close to the Cuban coast. I asked if I was covered during an emergency landing in Cuba. She thought I was because I was enroute to Mexico where I was covered, but she wasn't absolutely certain.

Best,

Dave
 
Ken Ibold said:
The policies I've read only extend this coverage if you rent during a period while your insured aircraft is down for a covered repair due to an earlier loss.

Mine used to be that way if the plane was owned by a corporation, but if it was privately owned, the coverage existed whether or not my plane was down for maint. For the last few years, they offered to waive that for me (my plane is owned by a corp) at no cost. This coverage only applies to airplanes with the same or fewer seats and the same or simpler category.
 
The debate over renter's insurance has many sides, but what about the case where you are a commercial pilot, flying other people's planes or planes they rent? Does anyone even write insurance for that?

I've been told (by multiple insurance agents) that the policies can only be written for a specific aircraft, and you can't have a policy that is like when you borrow/rent a car for commercial purposes.

On a side note, I even had one insurance agent tell me that as a commercial pilot flying other people's planes, I have no liability exposure. I refrained from laughing at him.

PS. This may be considered hijacking the thread, but it's a related question. Sorry if it's a hijack.
 
msmspilot said:
The debate over renter's insurance has many sides, but what about the case where you are a commercial pilot, flying other people's planes or planes they rent? Does anyone even write insurance for that? I've been told (by multiple insurance agents) that the policies can only be written for a specific aircraft, and you can't have a policy that is like when you borrow/rent a car for commercial purposes.
The issue here is not the pilot certificate level, but rather the purpose of the flight. For "pleasure/business" flying (which includes flying yourself around on business not related to the flight itself, e.g., salesman flying to customers' locations), the standard renter's/non-owned aircraft policy will cover flying in rented or borrowed planes. However, it will not cover the pilot for a "commercial operation," which means corporate flight ops, sightseeing rides, flying Part 135, banner-tow, aerial photography, etc. For that, the pilot has to be a named insured on the commercial-use policy of the party running the operation.
 
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