Diverted

[ntbjounin]

So 2 days ago, I was coming through Cincinnati on the way back to Dallas on American eagle. First, I noticed we were just making some random turns and not really going anywhere. Sort of staying over a river near Monroe, LA. There were left turns and right turns, and I wondered what was going on. It wasn't any holding pattern I've ever seen. Can anyone explain it to me? You can clearly see the obscure holding pattern if you can even call it that, on the flight tracker.

So after a while he told us we'd be going to Waco. They kept us on the plane while we were delayed for another 3 hrs on the ground in Waco. Not due to weather, just ATC overburdened. We finally made it to DFW almost 5 hrs late. The CPT was telling us we were waiting on our clearance. There was a Comair CPT sitting next to me, so I asked him if we could just takeoff VFR since i called DFW atis and they reported FEW9000. It was totally VFR from ACT to DFW. He said yes it's doable, but the DFW tower would just tell us to hold b/c they dont want to deal with VFR until they get all the IFR in. I guess that makes sense, but it's still annoying.

Also, I wondered, if some one on the plane had been going TO Waco after Dallas, and wanted off the plane in Waco, would they have let them off? Thoughts and explanations?
CVG-ACT

Finally arriving.

I've never been diverted before (except on checkrides), it was an experience. Though you can imagine we weren't too thrilled.

 

[Skip Miller]

Also, I wondered, if some one on the plane had been going TO Waco after Dallas, and wanted off the plane in Waco, would they have let them off? Thoughts and explanations?

Prolly not. If there were checked bags involved, almost definitely not. After 9-11 a passenger's bags must get off with the passenger. Now you are asking the flight crew to crawl through the belly of the plane to find a specific bag? Not my yob, dude.

A long time ago, an international flight arriving JFK had to divert to BDL: for weather, I think. One or more passengers had BDL as their final destination. They wouldn't let him off and here I can't remember what happened. Evidently he got abusively irate. He ultimately was let off the plane for medical reasons and my confusion is if he faked an illness due to the stress and stupidity of the situation or really was sick. I think that was resolved in the court system but I can't recall....

-Skip

 

[t0r0nad0]

I think it would be perfectly legal to takeoff VFR and head to DFW, but you would run into two obstacles... 1) the one the Comair CPT mentioned, with the tower refusing you until the IFR's came in, and 2) it's probably against company OpSpecs to fly VFR.

Somewhat related story: There is a Continental Maintenance Base at Hobby Airport, a hold-over from the days when Trans-Texas Airways/Texas International was based there prior to buying out Continental and taking their name. Continental no longer serves Hobby with pax service (not even with regional jets). This maintenance base services the 737-300 and -500 completely, and fits out the interiors of the new -900ER's that have recently joined the fleet. When they get a plane to work on, or finish working on one and send it back to line service, they come from/go to IAH, which is something like 30-40nm away. Even on VFR days, they file an IFR flight plan to get over to IAH because their OpSpecs say they have to.

 

[Teller1900]

So 2 days ago, I was coming through Cincinnati on the way back to Dallas on American eagle. First, I noticed we were just making some random turns and not really going anywhere. Sort of staying over a river near Monroe, LA. There were left turns and right turns, and I wondered what was going on. It wasn't any holding pattern I've ever seen. Can anyone explain it to me? You can clearly see the obscure holding pattern if you can even call it that, on the flight tracker.

Probably just delay vectors.

So after a while he told us we'd be going to Waco. They kept us on the plane while we were delayed for another 3 hrs on the ground in Waco. Not due to weather, just ATC overburdened. We finally made it to DFW almost 5 hrs late. The CPT was telling us we were waiting on our clearance. There was a Comair CPT sitting next to me, so I asked him if we could just takeoff VFR since i called DFW atis and they reported FEW9000. It was totally VFR from ACT to DFW. He said yes it's doable, but the DFW tower would just tell us to hold b/c they dont want to deal with VFR until they get all the IFR in. I guess that makes sense, but it's still annoying.

Launching VFR is entirely dependent upon the company's OpSpecs. Here, it's allowed if the captain deems it safe and gets specific authorization from the dispatcher for "VFR at captain's discression." It really doesn't happen very often. Even on crystal clear days we fly our 37 mile hop from Augusta to Rockland IFR the whole way. The odds of getting permission to fly from a tower to a tower (especially a Bravo tower) VFR are astronomically slim. And chances are, if ATC is overburdened to the point that they're holding/ground stopping, if you try to cheat the system and sneak in VFR you're going to hear "Remain clear of the Bravo, squawk 1200, frequency change approved...nice try."

Otherwise, we're allowed to launch from an uncontrolled airport as long as we pick up our IFR within 50 miles, and we can cancel when going into an uncontrolled airport as long as "visual contact can be maintained with the landing surface at all times."

Also, I wondered, if some one on the plane had been going TO Waco after Dallas, and wanted off the plane in Waco, would they have let them off? Thoughts and explanations?
CVG-ACT

Finally arriving.

I've never been diverted before (except on checkrides), it was an experience. Though you can imagine we weren't too thrilled.

Nope. Unless the plane was at the gate anyways, not going to happen. If they kept you on board and away from a gate for 3 hrs, chances are there was no gate space or the local operations didn't want to deal with your plane (perhaps Eagle doesn't own or have contracts for any gates in Waco, I have no idea?). Without a gate and a customer service rep at the base of the stairs, ain't no way they're gonna let someone off the plane. And like Skip said, you then run into the problem of bags, and that's well outside the scope of what the pilots/FAs are allowed to do. The only other options, also as mentioned by Skip, is to be escorted off by the authorities (police or medical). Either way, it will probably make for a longer day in the end.

 

[ntbjounin]

I think it would be perfectly legal to takeoff VFR and head to DFW, but you would run into two obstacles... 1) the one the Comair CPT mentioned, with the tower refusing you until the IFR's came in, and 2) it's probably against company OpSpecs to fly VFR.

He mentioned it may be against AE opspecs to go VFR. He commented that he sometimes takes off VFR out of CVG and picks up IFR inflight.

Probably just delay vectors.

"Remain clear of the Bravo, squawk 1200, frequency change approved...nice try."

HAHAHA i can totally see that happening at DFW!!! but instead of a clever "nice try" it'd be something completely rude.


any idea what was up with that holding pattern though?

 

[t0r0nad0]

Just ask Ric about the time he was getting bounced between headings of 180 and 360 and asked to throttle back and speed up, all while still being 150nm away from HOU! I'm sure it's funnier in person, but it would make me laugh to read it!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A long time ago, an international flight arriving JFK had to divert to BDL: for weather, I think. One or more passengers had BDL as their final destination. They wouldn't let him off and here I can't remember what happened.

I dunno - My mom was on a flight sometime in the 80's that was bound for ORD and got diverted to MSN. She, and a handful of others, were headed to MSN anyway, and they were allowed to get off. But, that was the 80's.

 

[dparter]

A few weekends ago, I was flying United from LAX->ORD (on my way home to MSN). I had dozed off.... I woke up with ATC (channel 9) in my ear, but it didn't sound right -- we had diverted to IND due to bad WX, and not enough fuel for the estimated hold time (plus, I assume, reserves).

They didn't have a gate for us. They did let a few passengers off, if they had no checked bags, and they knew they could not get back on. The captain said he was surprised that they allowed that.

Once ATC said that we may be able to go (earlier than predicted) we were moving in about 5 minutes - faster than the other diverts.

Of course, my ORD->MSN flight was cancelled so I had to take the bus...

--david

 

[TMetzinger]

In this month's Airliners I read a Captains description of getting diverted to RIC instead of DCA. They let passengers off at RIC (who were going to try and drive to DCA or stay in RIC) but they'd have to let their checked bags stay on the plane.

This was a recent (last month) occurrence. So I'm now aware of several instances where people are allowed to stop flying without their bags, once they've departed from their original destination. Perhaps in these cases the bags were 100% screened at departure, or they feel that someone leaving his bags after an unscheduled diversion is not the same threat as someone deciding not to fly at all, or refusing further flight at a scheduled stop.

 

[SCCutler]

Well, here's a report from the front, in real-time.

I am on AA Flight 509, FLL-DFW, but diverted to and sitting on the ramp at San Antonio (along with about a dozen other diverted aircraft). They are being very informative, and are allowing anyone who wants off, to get off, with the understanding that their bags will NOT get off. Some are choosing to do so.

Flightaware shows that they already have filed a DFW flight plan, and my read of the radar (and TAF) suggests that they should be able to get us in there within an hour or so, but that, of course, does not factor in the backlog of aircraft getting in from various diversion sites.

Wish us luck!

---

PS- Celia is bored with this game!

 

[SCCutler]

OK, so the weather passed to the east, and after 2+ hours on the ground, AA got the bird going pronto (in relation to the opportunity to arrive without weather drama). We had a great view of the towering storms to the immediate east as we approached the metroplex, and maneuvered around for landing at DFW; final for one of the right-side (west ) parallels to the south, and then our descent stopped- and we flew past. Sure enough, the wind had just then shifted, and they had to spin the airport.

15 minutes more fidaddling as Regional Approach dealt with what had to be loads of fun in getting everybody turned around, landed, taxied up to a gate at Terminal D.... and waited.

The gate was not taken, but we had to wait thirty (30) minutes for them to get someone to bring us in.

Bags took about 45 minutes (the first 1/2 a plane's worth came right out, then a long wait for ours.

Got out to the curb to catch the "TerminaLink" bus (you have to be INSIDE SECURITY to take the cool new train, as it works out), because (of course) we are parked at Terminal C. The sign says, "On Call, dial [number]" because, as it turns out, they go to a skeleton crew of buses at midnight. Did these morons not notice a massive herd of delayed aircraft coming in?

Packed bus, with broken A/C, and we finally, finally got to the C terminal and got the car.

I hate commercial flying. I hate DFW airport (I know, it's my home airport, I should love it, but when Braniff died, so did my affection for DFW), and by God, I could have flown home from Boca Raton in my Bonanza, with a fuel stop on the way, faster than I was able to do it in a jet.

OK, not really, because the WX would still have affected me. But all that other crap would not.


The whole experience stank (except the crew in the airplane, they were great).

 

[Steve]

You could have stopped along the way and waited out the cells here, ya know. There was a window from around 6-8pm it was clear (well, no storms) from here to DFW, with the wx to the N and E of your route when you got into TX.

I was watching that stuff all day 'cause I was thinking about going to the open house at LNC. Probably could have made it if I had left early and stayed late. oh well...plane's headed to the radio shop for a couple of weeks now.

I hate commercial flying. I hate DFW airport (I know, it's my home airport, I should love it, but when Braniff died, so did my affection for DFW), and by God, I could have flown home from Boca Raton in my Bonanza, with a fuel stop on the way, faster than I was able to do it in a jet.

OK, not really, because the WX would still have affected me. But all that other crap would not.