Descent rate on non-precision approaches?

[N7702Y]

I'm a dive and drive guy. If I had a 480 or a 430W/530W, then that would be a different deal, but I don't.

I like to be at the MDA, stabilized in the landing configuration at about blue line plus 10 as early as possible. I'll do up to a 1,000 FPM rate of descent to get there.

Only other thing I'd throw out is that it is important to know in advance from practice, for given conditions, what power settings and configurations will give you the desired rate of descent, and then what power settings will hold you at your target airspeed in the landing configuration at MDA. Practice makes perfect.

Jay

 

[Bill]

Only other thing I'd throw out is that it is important to know in advance from practice, for given conditions, what power settings and configurations will give you the desired rate of descent, and then what power settings will hold you at your target airspeed in the landing configuration at MDA. Practice makes perfect.

That is the hardest thing IFR wise for club fliers like me, we have three different planes, and it is hard to stay on top of all of those power setting and configuraitons. It seems like you're always re-inventing the wheel.

Add to that three different sets of GPS, radios, and other equipment, and staying current in all three aircraft is really tough.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Only other thing I'd throw out is that it is important to know in advance from practice, for given conditions, what power settings and configurations will give you the desired rate of descent, and then what power settings will hold you at your target airspeed in the landing configuration at MDA. Practice makes perfect.

Amen to that. First thing I do now when checking out in a new type is to do the "IFR configurations"... What rate of climb do I get with full power, and what's the pitch attitude? What's my airspeed (and attitude) for cruise? What airspeed can I get with a 500fpm cruise climb? What power settings do I need for 500fpm descent, 1000fpm descent, clean and with approach flaps at 90 knots?

Once you know the numbers, it's much easier to fly IFR. 1000fpm descent, 90kt, set 13" MP and forget it until you level off with 22" MP. It takes a lot of guesswork and thought out of the process and lets you focus more on flying the procedures.

Then, I do my own checklists and add a table of the configurations such as this:

 

[poadeleted20]

Then, I do my own checklists and add a table of the configurations such as this:

With the exception of the added Vy line, and the absence of the "Turn-Time-Twist-Throttle-Talk" across the bottom, that looks suspiciously like the 6 Configurations sticker handed out by PIC, and described in Peter Dogan's "Instrument Flight Training Manual." The 6 Configurations concept is one of the underpinnings of the PIC method of instrument flight training as pioneered by the late Mr. Dogan.

 

[JohnR]

Descend as quickly as your skills will allow you to level off without losing control. You never want to let an approach get to where you need your superior airmanship skills. The exact rate of descent is up to you and how sharp you are.

 

[flyersfan31]

And Dogan's approach works like magic! I was really impressed at how much my workload was reduced just by knowing those settings.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

With the exception of the added Vy line, and the absence of the "Turn-Time-Twist-Throttle-Talk" across the bottom, that looks suspiciously like the 6 Configurations sticker handed out by PIC, and described in Peter Dogan's "Instrument Flight Training Manual." The 6 Configurations concept is one of the underpinnings of the PIC method of instrument flight training as pioneered by the late Mr. Dogan.

Interesting. Well, FWIW, I didn't rip it off - On my first lesson with my CFII, we went through and figured out the configs. Now, every time I fly a new airplane (that is, one I'm actually going to be flying again...) I try to get these figured out. I've also added a couple, depending on the airplane. (Gear up/down, additional climb/descent rates and/or flap settings.) Every checklist I make has this table on it right next to the V-speeds.

 

[poadeleted20]

Interesting. Well, FWIW, I didn't rip it off - On my first lesson with my CFII, we went through and figured out the configs.

Then your instructor either read Dogan's book or was PIC-trained himself. In any event, the 6 Configs make instrument training about 6 times easier.

 

[gismo]

That is the hardest thing IFR wise for club fliers like me, we have three different planes, and it is hard to stay on top of all of those power setting and configuraitons. It seems like you're always re-inventing the wheel.

Add to that three different sets of GPS, radios, and other equipment, and staying current in all three aircraft is really tough.

Well, there's another reason to get your own Mooney!

When I was flying club planes I had the pertinent info on a set of 3x5 cards, one for each plane. IIRC, the club instructors would supply them to all new members.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Then your instructor either read Dogan's book or was PIC-trained himself. In any event, the 6 Configs make instrument training about 6 times easier.

Option A. At his reccommendation, I finally bought the Dogan book for myself. Damn good book! I should finish reading it...

The biggest thing I took away from the book: "If plus or minus 100 feet is all you ever try for, it is all you are ever going to get."

 

[midlifeflyer]

Then your instructor either read Dogan's book or was PIC-trained himself. In any event, the 6 Configs make instrument training about 6 times easier.

I'm sure that the concept of pitch + power + cofiguartion = expected performance is not unique to Dogan.

That is the hardest thing IFR wise for club fliers like me, we have three different planes, and it is hard to stay on top of all of those power setting and configuraitons. It seems like you're always re-inventing the wheel.

Bill,

So write them down. Create a configuration table for each airplane. In my case, my personal checklists have a table, but I've seen places that use the system where they stick them right up on the glareshield. These don't have to be memorized.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm sure that the concept of pitch + power + cofiguartion = expected performance is not unique to Dogan.

I am, too, but the particular names for the configurations and the layout of the card are identical to Dogan's, and I've not seen it quite the same anywhere else.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I am, too, but the particular names for the configurations and the layout of the card are identical to Dogan's, and I've not seen it quite the same anywhere else.

Well, maybe. There are variations (I use "ILS Descent" and "MDA Descent" instead of "precision" and "non-precision"), but there really aren't a heck of a lot of different ways to say it or lay it out.

 

[RogerT]

In my training on non-precision approaches, I've learned to descend to the minimum altitudes at step-down fixes, or to the DH after the FAF, as soon as practicable.
Erice

I was taught to use 1000 fpm and get down as quickly as possible.

RT

 

[MauleSkinner]

I did a constant-angle-descent VOR approach today (clouds about 500 feet above MDA, good vis) using GPS/FMS...worked out slick, but remember that NPA's don't necessarily line up with the runway like PA's normally do. You might still have to destabilize yourself slightly to get lined up with the runway to land.

I won't say it caught me by surprise, but it definitely didn't display the "correlation" level of learning until after the fact

Fly safe!

David