Departing after TFR expiration

[Nav8tor]

I'm scheduled to fly in the vicinity of KILG from 3 - 6 on Monday but there's a Presidential TFR in the Phila area on Monday that's scheduled to end at 3:45. Its a traffic watch flight, so filing a flight plan isn't an option and I'll have to loiter in the area.Obviously I'll have to wait until at least 3:45 before I take off but I'm a bit concerned about taking off right after the TFR is due to expire. What if the President's scheule is delayed? I assume they build enough slack into the TFR effective times to cover delays but it seems like cutting it close if I plan to take off right at 3:45. If I call flight service at 3:30 and they tell me that the TFR still ends at 3:45 is there a chance it could still be extended after that?

I'm considering delaying my takeoff to at least 4:00 but I don't want to wait any longer if I don't have to.

What would you do?

 

[ScottM]

Re: Departing after TFT expiration

Call FSS several times and record what they tell you. People have been burned when FSS said the TFR was over but the SS still had AF1 in the area. I would also call the local control people to find out if it is really safe to go up.

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Departing after TFT expiration

None of the above. Call Philly Approach from the ground before you launch, no matter what time that is (early or late). The FSS may not get as immediate word of any late departure. However, filing a flight plan does remain an option -- just make it a "from Point A to Point A" with an adequate ETE, and note that it's a Presidential TFR VFR flight plan so it goes in the IFR system and you can get a squawk from PHL before launching as long as you'll stay in radar contact the whole time and not penetrate the inner 10-mile ring.

 

[mantakos]

Re: Departing after TFT expiration

You can certainly file a flight plan, but Presidential TFRs typically limit certain types of traffic allowed, which might apply to traffic watch, e.g. "LIMITED TO AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING LOCAL AIRFIELDS AND ATC MAY AUTHORIZE TRANSIT OPERATIONS. AIRCRAFT MAY NOT LOITER."
-harry

 

[Nav8tor]

Re: Departing after TFT expiration

...filing a flight plan does remain an option -- just make it a "from Point A to Point A" with an adequate ETE, and note that it's a Presidential TFR VFR flight plan so it goes in the IFR system and you can get a squawk from PHL before launching as long as you'll stay in radar contact the whole time and not penetrate the inner 10-mile ring.

The text of the TFR says loitering isn't allowed. Wouldn't circling over the highways be considered loitering?

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Departing after TFT expiration

The text of the TFR says loitering isn't allowed. Wouldn't circling over the highways be considered loitering?

Dunno -- you're working, not sightseeing. I suspect that as long as Philly Approach knows what you're doing (and I guess they talk with you twice a day, every day, five days a week, so they really should) they won't be concerned as long as you stay out of the 10nm ring. Call 'em and ask.

 

[gprellwitz]

Or publicize that the reason there are no eyes-on traffic reports is because of the Presidential TFR. (Yeah, not really an option, I know. But it sounds good!)

 

[Nav8tor]

Or publicize that the reason there are no eyes-on traffic reports is because of the Presidential TFR. (Yeah, not really an option, I know. But it sounds good!)

And traffic is likely to be heavy then as a result of road closures for the Presidential motorcade

 

[TMetzinger]

Actually, having your stations broadcast "We're sorry, but we don't have current traffic information because the airspace is restricted for the president's visit" is a good tactic. Some folks may be annoyed, but I bet most will be understanding. Either way, it's a win for the stations.