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SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Castle Rock, CO
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Everything Offends Me
I am going to be based out of KINT in a few short months, and have been looking to find information about how to navigate around the SFRA.

Seems there's a lot of outdated information out there.

Can anyone give me a soup to nuts example of what it would take to fly from KINT to KACY (as an example), VFR, through the SFRA?

I'll verify everything, of course, but I don't even know where to start. It seems quite confusing.
 

For a flight from KINT to KACY, I don't think there's much compelling reason to enter the SFRA itself, but you will likely come close enough to trigger the requirements for the "special awareness training" (linked above) if you're VFR, per 91.161. It's a good idea to take the training course any time you plan to be in the area, even if you plan to go IFR.
-harry
 
What Harry said -- take the course, and when you're done, we'll help sort any remaining questions.
 
Take the online course, carry the card and have fun. A VFR direct flight just has you passing through the speed ring, no biggie.
 

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GMascelli said:
Take the online course, carry the card and have fun. A VFR direct flight just has you passing through the speed ring, no biggie.
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...except that the "speed ring" is also the "card ring" for VFR (60nm required, 100nm recommended), so do take the course.
 
TMetzinger said:
One must take the course. Not required to CARRY the card, however.
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That's what I thought. The FAA has a record of you taking a course through your pilot cert number.
 
TMetzinger said:
One must take the course. Not required to CARRY the card, however.
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Thats what I thought until my DE for the instrument ride asked to see mine. He advised that it must be carried with me. No biggie, sealed it in plastic and stuffed it in the wallet with my medical.:dunno:
 
GMascelli said:
Thats what I thought until my DE for the instrument ride asked to see mine. He advised that it must be carried with me. No biggie, sealed it in plastic and stuffed it in the wallet with my medical.:dunno:
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Your DE's misinformed. PM me his name and I'll see if I can work this through the FAASTeam. This topic came up during our rep training just two days ago.

It's certainly not a bad idea to have it with you, but it is NOT required to be on your person.
 
Anthony said:
That's what I thought. The FAA has a record of you taking a course through your pilot cert number.
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One would think that this information would be accessible to the FAA, but one must physically present the card at the FSDO to be vetted to fly into the FRZ.

Wells
 
W. Stewart said:
One would think that this information would be accessible to the FAA, but one must physically present the card at the FSDO to be vetted to fly into the FRZ.

Wells
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That's to make it easier for them. They do have the ability to look up the course completion, but let's just say that the FAA is challenged when it comes to Information Technology in the FSDOs. Sometimes it's a lack of equipment, sometimes it's a lack of proficiency. Even as recently as this spring I knew of three FSDOs that required CFI candidates to bring in the printed 8710 form because they couldn't use IACRA.

It's not a requirement to have the card in your possession to go flying in the SFRA or in the 60 NM ring.
 
TMetzinger said:
It's not a requirement to have the card in your possession to go flying in the SFRA or in the 60 NM ring.
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I believe what you're saying about the card and I haven't seen it anywhere that it is required to be with you when flying - but given that it's a common belief that it is required, can you help us out by giving some background on how you can be so sure that I won't be hassled, detained, or otherwise inconvenienced by some FAA/DHS/TSA mook if I'm not able to produce it?

In other words, is your assertion a legal one and a practical one?
 
PittsDriver said:
I believe what you're saying about the card and I haven't seen it anywhere that it is required to be with you when flying - but given that it's a common belief that it is required, can you help us out by giving some background on how you can be so sure that I won't be hassled, detained, or otherwise inconvenienced by some FAA/DHS/TSA mook if I'm not able to produce it?

In other words, is your assertion a legal one and a practical one?
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Sorry, there's no guarantee against you not being hassled by mooks. - By definition a mook makes up his own interpretation of the laws/regs and attempts to enforce them on you.

However, they will have a hard time violating you for it, since it's not required by the regulations.

So by all means carry it with you. But don't worry about a suspension/revocation just because you don't have it with you.
 
When the reg was first put in place, it was certainly the general consensus that you didn't need to carry the certificate with you, and I don't.

The FAR says:
(c) Inspection of certificate of training completion. Each person who holds a certificate for completing the Special Awareness Training must present it for inspection upon request from:
(1) An authorized representative of the FAA;
(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board;
(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer; or
(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration.​

So does that mean that you have to carry it with you in order to present it for inspection? I would say no. I'd note that 61.51 has similar text:
(i) Presentation of required documents. (1) Persons must present their pilot certificate, medical certificate, logbook, or any other record required by this part for inspection upon a reasonable request by—​
It's generally understood that this doesn't imply a requirement to carry these items on you when you fly. Some of these items are required to be carried, but that requirement is explicitly mentioned in other FARs.

Note that one FAR says "upon request" and the other says "upon reasonable request". I guess we're subject to unreasonable requests for the SFRA certificate. :)
-harry
 
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The issue of carrying the card was dispensed with in the preamble to the regulation requiring the course to be taken -- it is not repeat not required. Any DPE who hassles you or Inspector who writes you up for that is out of line. And this is an issue for my trainees, since Easton MD (where my favorite examiner resides) is inside the 60-mile card ring. They must have taken the course, but need not carry the card -- and the DPE knows this quite well.
 
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