Dan's Discovery Flight Tips

[Ted]

While getting far off topic in the Spin Training poll, we got to talking about rules for discovery flights, or whenever we, as advocates of flying, get the opportunity to expose someone new to our world. I thought that they were definitely worthy of reposting and discussion under a new topic. See here:

I made up a Discovery Flight Syllabus and added it to my CFI binder.

Front and center is this section, which applies to any first time flight, not just an "Official Discovery Flight."

Considerations

• Clear morning (avoid thermal turbulence)
• Well maintained and clean airplane
• Short (avoid possibility of motion sickness)
• Comfortable, clean headsets
• Breath mints for the CFI
• Explain everything that will happen before it happens without information overload
• Time at the controls in flight regimes that don't require grabbing the yoke
• If time allows -- fly over landmarks familiar to the person taking the flight
• Work through any apprehension with care

We would all do well to heed to advice to be better advocates for GA, and less interested in "showing off."
IMHO, non-pilots already regard us with more respect than we probably deserve, so if you need the ego boost, dwell on that!​

The breath mints I can definitely say are a plus. We've all been in planes with people who need them. Planes are crampt enough as is, and frequently people want to get out anyway. No need to give them another reason.

I'd add/modify a few things to this.

Figure out, probably by both reading the person and asking him or her, what kind of flight he or she wants. I've taken up a few people who are more racing types and are more interested in seeing steep turns, slips, the sort of "fun stuff" (at least to me). But for the most part, people, even those who are the self-proclaimed adrenaline junkies, tend to have some apprehension their first time in a small plane. Thinking back to my first lessons, it took me a bit to just get used to the fact that I was up in the air, and the ground was way down there.

Explaining everything is good. Leaving out some stuff can also be good. On Sunday, I took a friend up for his first flight. This was more of a selfish thing for me, because I had to get him from Williamsport to Binghampton. 40 minutes each way in the Archer, about 2 or 2.5 hours each way in a car. There was some mild turbulence and the weather wasn't great. For example, when I took off I maintained higher speeds in case of a wind shear since there were some gusts down low. Explaining that to him, all well and good. I probably would have been better off leaving out the bit about how if the wind gust is strong enough to get the air speed below stall speed, then the plane stalls. He wasn't exactly comforted by that bit of information. If it wasn't for the fact that we had a purpose in mind (saving me driving time) I wouldn't have taken him up that day, but it was good to learn. Overall I must not have scared him too much; he said he'd like to go up again.

The turbulence, I have discovered, is the big thing that most people don't like. Even if they don't get motion sick, it's too much for most people to want to deal with on their first flight. It really ought to be a perfectly smooth day.

For people who want the nice, easy ride, keep climbs and descents below 700 fpm and try to keep all turns staandard rate. Steeper changes in altitude can bother ears, and steeper turns can just make people uncomfortable. A friend of mine pointed this out after we went flying with someone who is not a pilot and is more just getting used to the whole flying thing. I did a bad job of adhering to those, and she wasn't too thrilled with the ride. Thankfully, though, it didn't scare her, but it wasn't the good experience I would have liked to have made it. I realized I was doing some of the showmanship bit, rather than trying to impress the passenger by making it the kind of flight that she wanted. What I can do with the plane is irrelevant in this case if it makes for an unhappy passenger.

Another thing that is neat is if you actually have a purpose in mind. Although I over-explained stuff to my friend on the trip up to Binghampton, when he saw how quick of a trip it was vs. driving and the view he got on the flight, he certainly enjoyed that. I have friends who'd like to come out to visit my house from New York, but don't have cars. They can, however, get up to HPN and I can pick them up and fly them back. I am hoping to get to give some more friends some good introductions to flying that way.

Biggest thing seems to be reading your passenger and figuring out what each one wants. I get people who want to ride in the Jag pretty frequently. Some just want to ride around in it, some want to actually see what it can do. Failure to correctly recognize the difference leads to someone who is unhappy at the end of the ride.

Who else has thoughts?

 

[dmccormack]

All excellent points, and I would maybe refine the descent to 500 FPM. There's hardly ever a reason to exceed that in a light plane.

Everyone approaches flight training with a different motive, but I think a good thing to drill into student's thinking is that " I am flying smoothly so that my passengers are comfortable."

This helps give them a reason to be smooth and careful and plan ahead, and also gives them a bit of a boost in the ego/responsibility department. I explain "While you and I are pilots and might enjoy that 0 G level off, your passengers may not appreciate it..."

Makes them "one of the ranks" of pilots who -- while maybe not paid -- approach flying with the attitude of a professional.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Great tips guys,.. need to write these down or print this out. I've recently been thinking about these same topics since I'll soon be taking my wife up for the first time. Last night, I almost had her over at the field to go up with my instructor, but the weather turned sour.

 

[KennyFlys]

My first discovery flight was mostly handled by another instructor then the flight portion was covered by me when I had just returned from a lesson. The second one had done a discovery flight with the other school then came to us. I spent nearly an hour with the prospective student and his wife answering questions as he was very serious about taking lessons.

In stead of a discovery flight, it led to his first lesson with his wife tagging along. It ended as 1.2 flown and a total of 1.5 in billable for me. I had another student immediately after him but promised him more time on me the next time we met.

Later that evening when I returned, I learned that new student had placed $8,000 on account to pay for all his training. This is proof-positive that your investment in time with a potential student can truly pay off. Had I simply done a quick preflight and jumped in a plane for thirty minutes, how likely would he have stayed with the school as well as with me?

I have two students whom both took a discovery ride with the school down at the end of the field. Neither received a logbook and an entry for that flight. This could easily get those flights considered a sight-seeing flight. We've always sold a logbook so they would have the flight officially logged as well as making it legal. I've ordered some cheaper logbooks for just such cases when the person is clearly there for the fun of the moment and no real intention to take lessons. At least the school and CFI are making it a legal flight under Part 61. Worse yet, both were told they would get the entry put in a log if they came back to take lessons.

 

[write-stuff]

Show them how the instrument panel looks from a diagram or photo (one of those big Sportys posters is excellent for this) prior to getting into the airplane. Show them how to read the altimeter and explain AGL vs. MSL.

Describe how they seek level flight using the "sight picture" of the horizon over the nose or glare shield.

If the student says something about getting hot, immediately start working your way back toward the airport and know where the sick-sack is (but don't let the student see it).

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'll just expand on the "fly over landmarks" recommendation...

"Fly over" the landmark doesn't necessarily mean "circle" the landmark.

When I gave my cousin's boy, Brandon, his first airplane ride (14 years ago...wow), his mom rode along. We did a circle over their house, a circle over Grandma's house, and a circle over his friend Collin's house. Probably 3-5 minutes of straight and level flight between the three farms. We rolled out of the circle over Collin's house early, because Brandon's mom commented that "I think it's time to head back to the airport."

It doesn't take much.

Btw...those airsick bands that put pressure points on the wrist? They really seem to work. She rode along again when I gave Brandon's sisters their first ride. When she wore the wristbands, she had no problems.

Fly safe!

David

 

[dbman5]

That's a great list.

I'd like to add to this comment. I think it's one of the most important ones. (Kinda goes along with MauleSkinner's excellent point, too.)

Explain everything that will happen before it happens without information overload

Whenever I take someone up just to go for a ride and they are new to flying (I'm not a CFI so intro rides are not the issue), I tell them when I'm going to do something different - turn, climb/descend - I tell them what I'm going to do and why I'm doing it just a bit before actually doing it. When someone is prepared for a change, they are much less likely to be bothered by it. Telling them why makes it sound like you are just explaining what's going on in order to make it more interesting. This way it isn't obvious that you're also trying to keep them from getting airsick. "I'm going to circle to the right so you can see the XXXX better" works much better and is much less 'condescending' than "I'm going to turn to the right now" - especially if this passenger isn't bothered by turns.

Throughout the flight I try to keep them thinking about something rather than letting their minds wander anywhere they want. This helps keep them from spending time imagining bad things that could happen. (I learned this from my youngest daughter who can be a real worrier.) I point out as many interesting landmarks as I can even if sometimes I have to elaborate a bit (anything to keep their mind occupied), talk about why I want to climb above the few clouds (smoother air), where we are going, what we will do when we get there, etc. Of course, it's even better if they ask questions on their own - and it seems most will if they are feeling comfortable with the flight.

The comment about "information overload" is a good one but I find it isn't much of an issue for me. I have to spend enough time flying the plane that I can't just talk continuously. After all, most of these flights are local siteseeing trips and don't generally include long, straight, level sections.

So far my success rate has been very good. Everyone I've taken up has enjoyed it. One guy even said I gave him a new appreciation of flying. Turns out he had been up once before but that pilot was constantly changing altitude and turning without warning him. It felt good to think that I was able to improve someone's perception of small planes.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I give quite a few first flights. MSN is a GREAT place to do so.

First, I do a thorough preflight and talk about what I'm checking for. As someone else noted, watching your words is important - Don't say things like "I'm gonna check these hinges because it would really suck if an aileron fell off." One person who I offered a ride declined because he'd ridden in a 310 with his brother, who had joked about a wing falling off - That guy will never get in a light airplane again. So, watch what you say.

Second, we strap in. While doing so, I ask if they've ever been on an airline flight or any other kind of flight. If they have, the briefing becomes something like "Well, just like on the airline flight, you have to have your seatbelt on for taxi, takeoff, and landing. However, since there's no lavatory on here, ya might as well keep it on all the time." It usually gets a chuckle and hopefully helps to keep them from being as nervous. If they've never flown before, they get the normal briefing along with a brief explanation of how airplanes turn (seeing a wing tilt down for the first time makes some folks nervous, especially if they've never really watched airplanes up close, played with flight sims, etc.) Finally, one of the most important parts of the briefing: "If at any time you decide you're not having fun, just let me know and we'll come right back to the airport." That tends to put them at ease, as it gives them a tiny bit of control.

Third - Start up, call up Clearance Delivery and ask for "city tour at 2500." MSN controllers rule - They always allow us to maneuver around in their airspace and provide traffic advisories as there will sometimes be two or three aircraft sightseeing over the city.

Fourth - The runup. I explain that we're going to check some things out on the engine before takeoff. Sometimes I'll explain the mag check, emphasizing that we're double-checking that both REDUNDANT systems are working properly. You must talk through this a bit, because runups make the plane start bouncing around before you even leave the ground and make people nervous if you don't explain what's going on and why the engine is making different noises.

Fifth - Taxi up to the hold short line, and ask "Are you ready to go?" Again, this gives them just a tad-bit of control. After they say "yes" then I call the tower for takeoff clearance.

Sixth - After takeoff, if there's so much as a tiny bump I'll explain what might be causing the turbulence. Most people understand a simple explanation of thermals. My favorite explanation of mechanical turbulence on a windy day is to liken it to rapids in a river - Water swirling around the rocks - it's just that we can't see the fluid we're in. Whatever you do, don't say "wind shear" as that's likely to evoke memories of the 80's when there were a number of airline crashes attributed to "wind shear" on the news. If you do say wind shear, you'd better be prepared to explain why it's different than a microburst and why small airplanes aren't affected nearly as much as large ones. Either way, once people understand that turbulence isn't random, and that you understand it and it's normal, it puts them more at ease with the small bumps.

By this time, we're over the city. We'll circle the capitol, Camp Randall Stadium, and maybe look at other sights on campus or downtown if they are interested. Then I tell Approach that we're done, get handed to Tower, explain a few things about landing, and we're on the ground before they even have a chance to get nervous. That's another important thing: Keep it relatively short.

Then, enjoy the smiles. Sometimes the most nervous folks are the best ones - If you can get them up, show them stuff, and get them down before they even think about being nervous, they have a great time and will talk about it a lot. My favorite part is when I take someone who's never even had a family member fly before, and they call all their friends and relatives right away. "Guess what? Daddy flew on a plane!"

 

[dmccormack]

My favorite part is when I take someone who's never even had a family member fly before, and they call all their friends and relatives right away. "Guess what? Daddy flew on a plane!"

Well MSN would be quite the discovery flight for me...



If you're giving a ride to several, put the nervous one up front, and let him/her "fly" the airplane once at altitude, so that once on the ground they call all their friends and relatives right away to say: "Guess what? Daddy flew the airplane!"

 

[gprellwitz]

This is an interesting thread. I'm going to be giving a "discovery flight" on Wednesday, but with a purpose. I'm flying my mother and step-father from PWK to MSN and back for dinner. (My brother lives there, so Leslie's going to come up in another plane and all five of us will get together.)

Unfortunately, this violates the "keep it short" rule. And I'm really hoping that it's clear VFR. I'll certainly be willing to stop short if there's a problem or either of them feels uncomfortable. Flying with a purpose changes a lot of this stuff, though.

 

[dmccormack]

This is an interesting thread. I'm going to be giving a "discovery flight" on Wednesday, but with a purpose. I'm flying my mother and step-father from PWK to MSN and back for dinner. (My brother lives there, so Leslie's going to come up in another plane and all five of us will get together.)

Unfortunately, this violates the "keep it short" rule. And I'm really hoping that it's clear VFR. I'll certainly be willing to stop short if there's a problem or either of them feels uncomfortable. Flying with a purpose changes a lot of this stuff, though.

So how did it go?

 

[gprellwitz]

This is an interesting thread. I'm going to be giving a "discovery flight" on Wednesday, but with a purpose. I'm flying my mother and step-father from PWK to MSN and back for dinner.

So how did it go?

I'll be able to tell you in about 13 hours! Weather is looking good, though.

 

[dmccormack]

I'll be able to tell you in about 13 hours! Weather is looking good, though.

I'm doing a short XC discovery this afternoon as well.. look's like the Big H will be good to us today!

 

[gprellwitz]

I'm doing a short XC discovery this afternoon as well.. look's like the Big H will be good to us today!

And it's keeping the temps down. WAY down! (Between Monday and Tuesday the temperature dropped 30*F here.) It's warmer in Saskatchewan than it is here!

 

[gprellwitz]

The weather was excellent for the first flight with my mother and step-father! Outbound we had light turb below about 3K, but it was smooth above that. They got to experience both towered and non-towered operations (Palwaukee closed before we got back), day and night flight. I made a point to explain things to them as we went along. I opted not to give them the controls, though. They expressed no fear or apprehension. Even better, all my landings with them were good! The weather couldn't have been more perfect.

One thing I did, though, was borrow the step-stool from Leslie. It was difficult for my mother to step up into the 210.

 

[dmccormack]

The weather was excellent for the first flight with my mother and step-father! Outbound we had light turb below about 3K, but it was smooth above that. They got to experience both towered and non-towered operations (Palwaukee closed before we got back), day and night flight. I made a point to explain things to them as we went along. I opted not to give them the controls, though. They expressed no fear or apprehension. Even better, all my landings with them were good! The weather couldn't have been more perfect.

One thing I did, though, was borrow the step-stool from Leslie. It was difficult for my mother to step up into the 210.

Glad to hear you were able to take advantage of yesterday's wx!

It was spectacular here as well. We left at 1600 EST and once above 1500' AGL the air was smooth as glass.

It was my student's wife's first ride and she enjoyed it thoroughly!

 

[Ted]

On this topic, yesterday I flew the director of my department and his children around the pattern once (they walked up right as I was about to take the plane around the pattern to dry it off after we washed it). It was a perfect day here for first flights, and I had two very excited passengers, aged around 9 and 11. Although not their first time in a small plane, it is still a special event for them.

Going through my head: "Hmm... this scenario holds the potential for disasterous repercussions if something bad happens..." I was thinking all of the tips on this thread and other experiences I've gained for trying to make this flight "perfect".

The kids were buckled in and I gave them my headsets, so I did this flight just with the speaker and the microphone. My explanations for this flight were more abbreviated than normal because of this. We taxiied up to the hold short line, did a run-up, and when all was good I looked at them and asked, "Ready?" with two big smiles and enthusiastic nods.

Take-off was silky smooth, climb-out at 500 fpm. Standard rate turn to crosswind then to downwind, level off at pattern altitude +/- 20 ft. Came in for a landing that wasn't the smoothest I've had, but probably considered pretty decent to most, with minimal float. These kids are like sponges, and were paying very close attention to my radio calls (good thing that I didn't screw up my radio work) and everything else about the plane, plus just looking out the window and observing the scenery.

To me, one of the best things that I can do with my flying is give the opportunity to others to fly, especially when they are as enthusiastic as these children were.

 

[dmccormack]

To me, one of the best things that I can do with my flying is give the opportunity to others to fly, especially when they are as enthusiastic as these children were.

Bravo and well done.. now finish up those ratings, get that CFI and join the ranks!

 

[Ted]

Bravo and well done.. now finish up those ratings, get that CFI and join the ranks!

"The plan" which I will share:

IR - finish it (coming along at a good rate, hoping for completion before the end of summer)
MEL - get it after IR (immediately following, hopefully sometime during the fall)
Comm/CFI - get after MEL once I hit my requried 250 hours... probably CFI first, at the rate I fly I'll probably start training for that shortly after I get my MEL and not be finished before I hit 250

CFII/MEI down the road perhaps...

I fully intend on getting my CFI so I can better share this with others! For the time being, despite being a 90 hour pilot (well, 91.7... every tenth counts at this point still), I can still share this with others and get them interested.

I've already got some friends lined up who want to be my students once I get my CFI!

Especially Missa! Well ok, maybe not her...

 

[dmccormack]

I've already got some friends lined up who want to be my students once I get my CFI! /quote]

I haven't done any ME yet (not planning on the airlines -- would be a huge pay cut at this point in life...)

I'm also waiting on the CFI-I. I want to log a few more hours in the clouds XC before getting that rating.

It's good to have students lined up. The day after my checkride I gave my first dual and have a few others ready to go (as soon as I get a training airplane on leaseback!)

 

[jesse]

Comm/CFI - get after MEL once I hit my requried 250 hours... probably CFI first, at the rate I fly I'll probably start training for that shortly after I get my MEL and not be finished before I hit 250

I'm confused. You need your commercial to get your CFI. (61.183c) I suppose you could train for your CFI before you train for your commercial. I'm not sure that would accomplish much though. There really isn't *ALL* that much dual to get your CFI.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Jesse, I originally read it as you did, but I think he meant he would get his CFI (SEL) initially before his CFI-I and MEI. Although ambiguous, earning the Comm before the CFI was implied.

 

[Ted]

I'm confused. You need your commercial to get your CFI. (61.183c) I suppose you could train for your CFI before you train for your commercial. I'm not sure that would accomplish much though. There really isn't *ALL* that much dual to get your CFI.

There you go, something I didn't know and hadn't asked my CFI about. Either way, I had planned on getting both anyway.

So, it's in the works.

 

[KennyFlys]

I'm confused. You need your commercial to get your CFI. (61.183c) I suppose you could train for your CFI before you train for your commercial. I'm not sure that would accomplish much though. There really isn't *ALL* that much dual to get your CFI.

The common claim by schools is it's only about 10-12 hours of flight time to prepare for a CFI. If you come right out of commercial training, it can take that small amount. But, if there had been a delay such as in my case, it could take closer to twice that given you're also learning these skills from the right seat and perfecting right-seat landings as well as talking through the process with "instructional knowledge."

I didn't give up side-loading on landings until I got into my first half dozen lessons having to land the plane, myself. As far as talking, I was quiet as a mouse during my CFI ride by my own opinion. Ben thought I did fine. He said it will come to me in time. Now, I sometimes think my students want me to shut up.

In contrast to flight, ground time never ends. I spent a good 80-90 hours over four weeks with a CFI preparing for my CFI oral, reviewing material and giving lessons to him and others. That's on top of a good 200+ hours at home studying and writing lesson plans.

 

[flyersfan31]

Great tips guys,.. need to write these down or print this out. I've recently been thinking about these same topics since I'll soon be taking my wife up for the first time. Last night, I almost had her over at the field to go up with my instructor, but the weather turned sour.

This time of year your best bet is early morning, 8am, or at twilight, but comfortably before sunset because you don't want to be out at night as a newly-minted pilot with a brand new passenger. New, uncertain pax don't like thermal-related bumps. Nice and smooth, baby steps.