damage report process?

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A couple months back I bounced a landing in gusty conditions, really hard, in my 172. Hard enough that I was worried I had damaged the airplane, but I pulled the cowl and looked carefully, couldn't find any wrinkles in the firewall or gear legs or wingskin, and the prop didn't make contact so I chalked it up as good landing gear that absorbed the shock. No phone calls, no paperwork (uncontrolled field).

Last week the airplane went in for annual and I told the mechanic about the hard landing and asked him to check everything that could have been affected. He called back today and said the main gear is bent and there is some wrinkling on the belly skin (I didn't think to look at the belly skin), but no other structural damage. He estimated 20k in repair costs, including all labor and paint since there will be some reskinning involved.

I'm named insured on the airplane, and all my paperwork is in order, so there shouldn't be a problem there - but since a report was never made at the time, we only found the damage now during annual, what's the best way to go about this? FAA/NTSB report after the fact and insurance claim? The repair cost is nowhere near to totaling the airframe, it is a 2001 model with high-end panel and mid-time 180hp engine.
 
No FAA/NTSB report required. Review the regs...Insurance is a different story but they probably don't need anything other than date that the loss occurred and have an adjuster look at the aircraft/hear the sad tale.
 
A couple months back I bounced a landing in gusty conditions, really hard, in my 172. Hard enough that I was worried I had damaged the airplane, but I pulled the cowl and looked carefully, couldn't find any wrinkles in the firewall or gear legs or wingskin, and the prop didn't make contact so I chalked it up as good landing gear that absorbed the shock. No phone calls, no paperwork (uncontrolled field).

Last week the airplane went in for annual and I told the mechanic about the hard landing and asked him to check everything that could have been affected. He called back today and said the main gear is bent and there is some wrinkling on the belly skin (I didn't think to look at the belly skin), but no other structural damage. He estimated 20k in repair costs, including all labor and paint since there will be some reskinning involved.

I'm named insured on the airplane, and all my paperwork is in order, so there shouldn't be a problem there - but since a report was never made at the time, we only found the damage now during annual, what's the best way to go about this? FAA/NTSB report after the fact and insurance claim? The repair cost is nowhere near to totaling the airframe, it is a 2001 model with high-end panel and mid-time 180hp engine.
file with your insurance, and talk to the adjuster, they are the ones that make the decisions.
 
A couple months back I bounced a landing in gusty conditions, really hard, in my 172. Hard enough that I was worried I had damaged the airplane, but I pulled the cowl and looked carefully, couldn't find any wrinkles in the firewall or gear legs or wingskin, and the prop didn't make contact so I chalked it up as good landing gear that absorbed the shock. No phone calls, no paperwork (uncontrolled field).

Last week the airplane went in for annual and I told the mechanic about the hard landing and asked him to check everything that could have been affected. He called back today and said the main gear is bent and there is some wrinkling on the belly skin (I didn't think to look at the belly skin), but no other structural damage. He estimated 20k in repair costs, including all labor and paint since there will be some reskinning involved.

I'm named insured on the airplane, and all my paperwork is in order, so there shouldn't be a problem there - but since a report was never made at the time, we only found the damage now during annual, what's the best way to go about this? FAA/NTSB report after the fact and insurance claim? The repair cost is nowhere near to totaling the airframe, it is a 2001 model with high-end panel and mid-time 180hp engine.

You deal with it by calling your insurance agent. It doesn't sound like the damage is necessarily in need of reporting to the NTSB/FAA
 
Oh I was just being snarky. I figured the post had to be fake, or doesn't anyone do preflight inspections anymore?

I was taught to look under the aircraft, anyway... And I'm pretty sure I'd notice the whole belly wrinkled.

Sounds fishy to me.
 
Landed hard enough to bend gear, but not set off the ELT?

Most people inspect those at annual, too.

Something is indeed fishy.
 
Oh I was just being snarky. I figured the post had to be fake, or doesn't anyone do preflight inspections anymore?

I was taught to look under the aircraft, anyway... And I'm pretty sure I'd notice the whole belly wrinkled.

Sounds fishy to me.

He said some wrinkles found, not the whole belly...it's easy to miss a little ripple unless you are on a creeper rolling under the airplane. Do you do that on every preflight?
 
He said some wrinkles found, not the whole belly...it's easy to miss a little ripple unless you are on a creeper rolling under the airplane. Do you do that on every preflight?

Also not every ripple is a big deal, plenty of 'oil canning' to be found on planes that isn't an issue. It's not until you look underneath the skin at the substructure that you can tell if you have a problem or not.
 
Talk to your agent, explain, do not lie. They are going to cover it one way or another...the words that make insurance companies shake in fear = bad faith. Also, your mechanic can make an affidavit that the damage was not there at the annual last year and it is there now...so something within the insured period occurred. You sign an affidavit that you were the only one who flew the airplane, know about the hard landing, inspected and didn't notice. You were concerned so you had your mechanic inspect and he found something. Pretty straight forward...
 
Stuff happens,notify your insurance agent. Not a big deal.
 
Talk to your agent, explain, do not lie. They are going to cover it one way or another...the words that make insurance companies shake in fear = bad faith. Also, your mechanic can make an affidavit that the damage was not there at the annual last year and it is there now...so something within the insured period occurred. You sign an affidavit that you were the only one who flew the airplane, know about the hard landing, inspected and didn't notice. You were concerned so you had your mechanic inspect and he found something. Pretty straight forward...

Yeah, I handled a couple of 'damage found at annual' claims, there was no issue, I didn't need any affidavits from anyone. The guy's stories were square and there was nothing questionable about the evidence, so I paid them, no problem. It's rare to see any questioning of the story unless there is a special circumstance and you can readily prove they are committing fraud. As you said, "Bad Faith" is a term insurance companies tremble at because juries are really good at hitting insurance companies with huge punitive damage awards. IIRC from my training the switch in attitude from "F-em, see how we can deny this" to "Pay them everything they have coming, but not a dime more." came about after a $10,000 homeowners claim denial cost State Farm $10MM in a bad faith suit. On catastrophes they get pretty liberal with the spending even. Settling and paying out 10% above what is necessary under the policy covering things that weren't covered to "make it go away" and close the file within 30 days (during which you have 300 files to close) was no more than a phone call to your file manager away. "Hey boss, this claim works out at $20k, but they are complaining about ___ not being covered, contractor says $2k." "Pay it, make it go away."
 
He said some wrinkles found, not the whole belly...it's easy to miss a little ripple unless you are on a creeper rolling under the airplane. Do you do that on every preflight?


I probably would if I hit that ****ing hard.

$20K in busted airplane parts is not a just a "hard landing" in a Cessna, that's a completely out of control arrival that miraculously wasn't a full blown crash and the pilot needs remedial training.

What type of remedial training would require a CFI to assess the skill set and see WTF it was, motor skills, decision making, bad pre-flight technique, or a combination of all of the above to whatever degree to not break Rule #1.

Rule #1: Don't break the airplane.
 
$20K in busted airplane parts is not a just a "hard landing" in a Cessna, that's a completely out of control arrival that miraculously wasn't a full blown crash and the pilot needs remedial training.

Pretty much - but it's not hard for me to see a windshear-on-short-final scenario that would produce that kind of arrival for a 172, though I would also be checking the prop tips very carefully...

The gear legs on a 172 are pretty forgiving, but there are limits.
 
I probably would if I hit that ****ing hard.

$20K in busted airplane parts is not a just a "hard landing" in a Cessna, that's a completely out of control arrival that miraculously wasn't a full blown crash and the pilot needs remedial training.

What type of remedial training would require a CFI to assess the skill set and see WTF it was, motor skills, decision making, bad pre-flight technique, or a combination of all of the above to whatever degree to not break Rule #1.

Rule #1: Don't break the airplane.

Rule #1 is NOT "do not break the airplane", it is do not break YOU. NEVER EVER try to save the airplane to save yourself...that is exactly what the insurance policy is for
 
Rule #1 is NOT "do not break the airplane", it is do not break YOU. NEVER EVER try to save the airplane to save yourself...that is exactly what the insurance policy is for
I go with...

1.) don't hurt innocent people on the ground that had nothing to do with my decision to aviate

2.) don't hurt people in the airplane

3.) don't hurt the airplane

4.) don't break the rules
 
Also not every ripple is a big deal, plenty of 'oil canning' to be found on planes that isn't an issue. It's not until you look underneath the skin at the substructure that you can tell if you have a problem or not.

Hell I've seen bulging, ripples, even burrs still hanging on the wingspar caps that were all factory quality.

I'm looking at a very nice 1977 177B where about every 10th hole has a round burr hanging on the spar cap! This was not missed by QA because it is very obvious and easy access.
 
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Landed hard enough to bend gear, but not set off the ELT?

Most people inspect those at annual, too.

Something is indeed fishy.

ELTs are generally designed to activate with forward impact, not downward. Depending upon the nature of the landing and the type of ELT, it's entirely plausible.
 
Also not every ripple is a big deal, plenty of 'oil canning' to be found on planes that isn't an issue. It's not until you look underneath the skin at the substructure that you can tell if you have a problem or not.

Given that the skin is a stressed part of the structure (on a C-172 for sure) even little wrinkles are of concern.

John
 
I go with...

1.) don't hurt innocent people on the ground that had nothing to do with my decision to aviate

2.) don't hurt people in the airplane

3.) don't hurt the airplane

4.) don't break the rules


Priorities in order of importance:

1 Skin
2 Tin
3 Ticket
 
Given that the skin is a stressed part of the structure (on a C-172 for sure) even little wrinkles are of concern.

John

Yes and no, it really depends on why it is there. Is it a concern? Yes, and should be researched. Does it actually have a deleterious effect? Depends on what the research finds. They aren't all perfect even from the factory.
 
When the gear box structure is bent on any of the cessna 100 series, a simple measurement from each wing tip to the ground on a level surface will tell. the measurement should be equal with 1 inch.

another way to tell is the fuel in the high tank will transfer to the low tank, and the low tank will always show a higher level of fuel.

If it ain't bent tell the A&P he must make their 401K on some one else.

Wrinkles on the belly skins of a Cessna are pretty common.
 
Priorities in order of importance:

1 Skin
2 Tin
3 Ticket

Right. But I'll put innocent ground standers skin before my skin. If I have to choose between crashing into a bunch of trees versus making a nice gentle landing in a soccer field full of a few hundred first graders. I'll take the trees.
 
Priorities in order of importance:

1 Skin
2 Tin
3 Ticket

I always thougth that 2 and 3 should be switched. You'd lose your license to fly just to save an airplane?

Or maybe it's meant to be a more "in the moment" thing. "I'm getting myself down safely, and this airplane if possible, and I'll deal with the FAA later."
 
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When the gear box structure is bent on any of the cessna 100 series, a simple measurement from each wing tip to the ground on a level surface will tell. the measurement should be equal with 1 inch.

Gear box structure? What gear box structure? Cessna 100's aren't geared, and even if they were, it would have nothing to do with how the wingtips sit.
 
I always thougth that 2 and 3 should be switched. You'd lose your license to fly just to save an airplane?

Meh. Putting the ticket above the airplane doesn't make much sense as that's going to increase risk on your skin :) Pretty unlikely you're going to completely lose your ticket unless you did something absolutely grossly ridiculous.

Depending on what I'm flying, how much it's worth, and what the insurance situation is, I'm by far more concerned about the hull and consequences of damaging it then I am explaining a mistake to the FAA.
 
Gear box structure? What gear box structure? Cessna 100's aren't geared, and even if they were, it would have nothing to do with how the wingtips sit.

:rolleyes2::no: perhaps if you try to understand rather than criticize...

I'll help this one time:

gear: landing gear which is the context of current discussion

box: somewhat geometric description

structure: implies load bearing framework for the landing gear in this context
 
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