Dakota Thunder 2009 May 30-31

B2Soar

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jun 25, 2008
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152
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North Dakota
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B2Soar
I plan to fly in to this event. Anybody else interested? www.dakotathunder.com The fly-in information tab at the top right gives the info and required paperwork.

Not every day you get to land on a 13,500' X 300' runway! And a photo of you in your aircraft with a B-1B bomber in the background.:arf:

Rick
 
I plan to fly in to this event. Anybody else interested? www.dakotathunder.com The fly-in information tab at the top right gives the info and required paperwork.

Not every day you get to land on a 13,500' X 300' runway! And a photo of you in your aircraft with a B-1B bomber in the background.:arf:

That'd be great, but it's 600nm away. Too much $ right now. :(
 
I plan to fly in to this event. Anybody else interested? www.dakotathunder.com The fly-in information tab at the top right gives the info and required paperwork.

Not every day you get to land on a 13,500' X 300' runway! And a photo of you in your aircraft with a B-1B bomber in the background.:arf:

Rick

It's not easy any more to land at a real AFB. Pretty good of the USAF to make that happen, IMO.

Pre 9/11, Whiteman AFB (home of the B-2s) use to let us shoot approaches as long as we didn't let our wheels touch the runway. It was good for the controllers since they got more traffic to work. Pretty interesting sight picture with a 200' wide runway, 12,000+ feet long, too.


Trapper John
 
That sounds cool! I might have to put that on the 'maybe' list.

What's the deal with the detailed approach/departure procedures? Are they expecting THAT much traffic, or are they just flexing their military "here's how to do it" procedure based mindset, or are they just giving procedures to pilots to make them feel like they're doing something 'special'?
 
That sounds cool! I might have to put that on the 'maybe' list.

What's the deal with the detailed approach/departure procedures? Are they expecting THAT much traffic, or are they just flexing their military "here's how to do it" procedure based mindset, or are they just giving procedures to pilots to make them feel like they're doing something 'special'?

Hey, it is military so it has to be "organized." That and maybe their controllers don't get enough traffic to be as proficient as the average Class D controller.

Didja notice the activities under "exciting events" for pilots included something about "military airspace"???
I've seen "prohibited" "restricted", "MOA", "TFR" etc. but I've never seen anything that was "Military Airspace" Maybe we should sic Steven P. on them?

Heck, I can land on a 13,500' runway just about anytime the wind is out of the south - I just ask Springs Approach for a practice ILS...
 
Ahh... my old stomping grounds.. would love to go back for a look see on how it's changed in 14yrs.

Military Airspace.. is short talk to cover all the "joint use" and other use alphabet soup airspace like MOA, R, P, Warning Area, ATCAA, VR, IR... ... ...

Wait... MOA is "Military Operating Area"... but yes.. it is "joint" use.. and "knock it off" calls are made when a "civilian" is known to be in the area, especially if he is not spotted.
 
Maybe it's time to read the FARs again. It's all civilian airspace. Some of it is used by the military with the FAA's permission.

Of course there have been examples of folks in the military who appear to think it is their airspace. I'm certainly not going to support some fly-in organizer's promotion of the concept that the military owns airspace. In fact, I'll take the time to point out the error in their ways.
 
Maybe it's time to read the FARs again. It's all civilian airspace. Some of it is used by the military with the FAA's permission.

Of course there have been examples of folks in the military who appear to think it is their airspace. I'm certainly not going to support some fly-in organizer's promotion of the concept that the military owns airspace. In fact, I'll take the time to point out the error in their ways.

No need to re read the CFRs, just re read my post. Sure it is all "civil" airspace. I do believe I called it "joint use". Yes, the "Gov't" (FAA) doles out chunks of airspace to protect "special use" for the safety of the "Civilian pilot and population" and also for the safety of the military to train in.

Oh, they know the don't "own the airspace", they are just trying to convey what they are doing in there and why it is dangerous for them and the civilian pilot if people don't pay attention. They are trying to save lives while training to protect your best interests.

But I guess you don't care about that.

And then the civilian pilot claims exclusive rights and decides to not pay attention?

Just becareful next time you go through that hot MOA with 20 fast fighters doing Air-to-Air combat. Or through that Restricted Area with bombs falling on ground targets, or the Army conducting shelling practice. Or maybe the 82nd Airborne is conducting training and kicking out 200 parachutists from a flight of C-17s in formation at night. Use times are published with a contact agency.

Oh, MOAs have been approved for "lights out operations". So if you decide to transition an active MOA at night, see no one. And then all of a sudden you see a lot of aircraft lights come on. That's because they saw you and had to "knock it off and show themselves". More valuable and expensive training time lost because some "civie" wanted to exercise his ignorance.

And be careful if you did not check with FSS to see if that VR or IR route you are crossing is hot. There could be a 540-600knt aircraft coming up your tail. The military has to provide 2 hour notice to "open" an IR route so the information can be disseminated. Do you know what the altitudes of that IR route are or where to find it?

Or you hit P-40 with the President in residence, you might find some F-16s on your wing. You'll never see the one behind you with his finger on the trigger if you make a threatening move. What's the new P-number for the Presidents home in Chicago?
 
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No need to re read the CFRs, just re read my post. Sure it is all "civil" airspace. I do believe I called it "joint use". Yes, the "Gov't" (FAA) doles out chunks of airspace to protect "special use" for the safety of the "Civilian pilot and population" and also for the safety of the military to train in.

Oh, they know the don't "own the airspace", they are just trying to convey what they are doing in there and why it is dangerous for them and the civilian pilot if people don't pay attention. They are trying to save lives while training to protect your best interests.

But I guess you don't care about that.

I'm not going to argue semantics on this one. I will clearly state that no one is looking out for my interests here but me. Believing otherwise is certainly your perogative.

From my perspective most things things of this nature are balance and compromise. An important point in maintaining the balance is to keep folks honest. Clearly the Ellsworth folks aren't honest when they claim "military airspace." If you don't like someone pushing back to maintain the balance, well that's just too bad.

Maybe it's a citizen's duty to push back. Maybe you don't care because you trust other folks will act in your interests. Or maybe you just want to argue on Eastern morning. If that's the case, sorry but I'm done with you on this topic. Hang in there and I hope your Easter improves.
 
Round up some rich buddies and ride share. You will also get an opportunity to see Mount Rushmore from above. Sure beats the ground view.

Like this?

DSCN3587.jpg


BTDT. :D
 
sounds like fun - I'll have to check my schedule and try to fit it in.
 
sounds like fun - I'll have to check my schedule and try to fit it in.

Greg, would you be willing to "planepool" ? I want to go to this, but can't afford the rental by myself. I think we both rent from the same place (Western Air at BJC).
 
Dakota Driver.. push back is ok.. I jump on the band wagon too when Gov't wants to expand "Special Use Airspace", Class B enlargements. For example the current SUA that Luke AFB wants between the base and the MOAs they use. Bad deal for lots of people.

Just think of it this way. County Gov't owns all the parks, special areas of the parks are set aside for special events for people, civilian and military, to share on a reservation basis. But you don't like that the local motorcycle club has reserved the best prime location for their annual picnic. They beat you to the reservation and now your family reunion has to find another park or wait. So you decide to just bust through the crowd and have your own picnic in the middle of theirs.

So much for being a Team Player.

The boy's at Ellsworth (yes I was one of them for a while) and other bases hold these events so the "civilian flying public" can better understand what is going on inside the reserved airspace. It's not a good idea to play with the big boys if you are not invited.

You want to see push back? You should see what we face here with the local County Dept of Aviation, to include a resolution before the state that would have severly limited your access to county maintained airports. The county would be able to pick and chose who landed where based on what certification your aircraft held and what "certificates" you carried in your pocket. The resolution was going to Washington DC to ask the Feds to Change the CFRs to the County's benefit.

Through pushbacks, to include AOPA and others, the resolution was severly changed, and now directs the formation of an Advisory Committee made up of all the players and that the County has to play nice and pay attention.
 
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Greg, would you be willing to "planepool" ? I want to go to this, but can't afford the rental by myself. I think we both rent from the same place (Western Air at BJC).
Sounds like a fine plan! I was thinking "who could I ask to go with me?" C-172? I'm not checked out in any Cirri, nor do I intend to. I plan to get checked out in the Arrow (provided I ever get my FR from hell complete)...
 
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That sounds cool! I might have to put that on the 'maybe' list.

What's the deal with the detailed approach/departure procedures? Are they expecting THAT much traffic, or are they just flexing their military "here's how to do it" procedure based mindset, or are they just giving procedures to pilots to make them feel like they're doing something 'special'?

I flew into Dakota Thunder 2007 and over 80 civilian aircraft were there. Coms were crowded and I was cleared number 3 to land on a one mile final! And then the guy in front of me lands on the numbers 6000' from the midfield turnoff! That is a BIG runway! If it flies, rolls, and has a com, you are welcome to land there. It looks like they are trying to organize arrivals and departures to avoid congestion problems this year.

It was a good time and my only complaint is it was about 20 degrees too hot.(90s) This year is a month earlier so that should not be a problem.

You do need to send in a "hold harmless" agreement as stated in the info.

Rick
 
Sounds like a fine plan! I was thinking "who could I ask to go with me?" C-172? I'm not checked out in any Cirri, nor do I intend to. I plan to get checked out in the Arrow (provided I ever get my FR from hell complete)...


I am a low hour (90) PP, so I am also not checked out in the Cirri. I was thinking one of the 180hp 172's. Either 733XB (I got my ticket in her) or 5091E.
 
Quite a bit of chipping left on that warrior and his horse! Nice pics though. Got a closer one of Rushmore?

Rick
 
It was a good time and my only complaint is it was about 20 degrees too hot.(90s) This year is a month earlier so that should not be a problem.


Rick

When I lived there I saw Memorial Day weekends with 90s.. and with 40s..
Weather there is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get.
 
Quite a bit of chipping left on that warrior and his horse! Nice pics though. Got a closer one of Rushmore?

Rick

Does not look like they've made much progress since I left in '95.

There used to be a VolksMarch every June. Hike the distance zigzaging through the forest from the parking lot around the back and up infront of his face. Eat a picnic lunch out on his arm, and hike the straight road back to the start.
 
Dakota Driver.. push back is ok.. I jump on the band wagon too when Gov't wants to expand "Special Use Airspace", Class B enlargements. For example the current SUA that Luke AFB wants between the base and the MOAs they use. Bad deal for lots of people.

Just think of it this way. County Gov't owns all the parks, special areas of the parks are set aside for special events for people, civilian and military, to share on a reservation basis. But you don't like that the local motorcycle club has reserved the best prime location for their annual picnic. They beat you to the reservation and now your family reunion has to find another park or wait. So you decide to just bust through the crowd and have your own picnic in the middle of theirs.

Your analogy is flawed in at least two ways. If you had the bikers say that the area was theirs then it would be accurate. Sorry you miss that important point. The other point is you seem to think someone wants to disrupt military activities. Maybe someone does but that was never even hinted at in my posts.

If you'll at least try to be accurate in your responses I'll consider the input. Otherwise it's just noise.

I hope your Monday is better than your Easter.
 
Quite a bit of chipping left on that warrior and his horse! Nice pics though. Got a closer one of Rushmore?

No, I think that shot of Rushmore is the best I've got (gotta be 2000 AGL, ya know). I don't know why it ended up so small though, I thought last time I posted it it was the same size as the others. :dunno:
 
No, I think that shot of Rushmore is the best I've got (gotta be 2000 AGL, ya know). I don't know why it ended up so small though, I thought last time I posted it it was the same size as the others. :dunno:

Waitaminute... Figured it out, I think. Try this:

web.jpg
 
I am a low hour (90) PP, so I am also not checked out in the Cirri. I was thinking one of the 180hp 172's. Either 733XB (I got my ticket in her) or 5091E.
Flew XB the last couple of days - hope to finish out my flight review tonight in 47D.
 
I plan to fly in to this event. Anybody else interested? www.dakotathunder.com The fly-in information tab at the top right gives the info and required paperwork.

Not every day you get to land on a 13,500' X 300' runway! And a photo of you in your aircraft with a B-1B bomber in the background.:arf:

Rick

Photo correction-----The Thunderbirds will be in the background this year!:D

You do need to send in a "hold harmless agreement" by May 20th.
 
I plan to fly in to this event. Anybody else interested? www.dakotathunder.com The fly-in information tab at the top right gives the info and required paperwork.

Not every day you get to land on a 13,500' X 300' runway! And a photo of you in your aircraft with The Thunderbirds in the background.:arf:

Rick


How many POAers are going to this? There are 200 civilian aircraft registered to land here. I don't know how many for Saturday or for Sunday. In 2007 there were 80 and some and it was a little crowded getting in. Be sure to follow the arrival proceedures and it should work out. Should be fun!:D

Rick
 
Unfortunately, things didn't work out for the trip this year.
 
Saturday was a great day and a great show. Over 100 civilian aircraft landed. Very orderly and well directed. First in first out and no hangups. So did anybody go Sunday?

Rick
 
alright! So how about a detailed pirep? pics? :)
 
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