Creative Ideas for Flight Training. (San Diego)

malcoholio

malcoholio

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Malcoholio
Hello,

I represent a group of 4 individuals looking to earn their PPL. Between the four of us, we have a diverse set of skills to consider;

1. Real Estate Professional – Loan Agent, Broker’s License. Specializing in both private and commercial real estate.
2. Attorney at Law – Specializing in business and criminal law.
3. IT Professional - with a diverse set of hardware and software experience and skills. Specializing in Small / Medium Business operations.
4. Owner / Operator of Transport (Limousine) Service – Large fleet of Town cars, Limos, etc.

We are exploring the idea of trading time/skills/services with a CFI for the goal of attaining our PPL.

Or possibly, finding a 5th person to enter into a co-ownership agreement for an airplane with their share to be paid in-part with flight training.

We are four good friends that have all done business with each other in the past, and appreciate the advantages of having friends with valueable skills.

We can all afford to pay for our own flight time, but we are also open to creative ideas that benefit all.

We all reside in San Diego, and would prefer KMYF, but any of the local airports will work.

Cheers!
 
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I would advise against the group purchasing a plane together for the simple fact that you are all most likely not going to follow through until completion. Even if you do you all will progress at different rate and you most likely will not end up saving any money given the high sales tax rate in California as well as insurance and storage costs in San Diego. Hard to say though not knowing what kind of plane and end goals you all have.

Personally if I were you guys I'd look into Plus One where you can rent a nice older 172s with WAAS GPS for $99/hour wet and have the choice of a lot of planes to chose from until you know what you like. G1000 all glass trainers in the fleet start around 150 wet/hour.


http://www.plusoneflyers.org/fleetlist/

If you don't mind the drive to brown field they are by far the cheapest and have a gruman for rent as well.

http://www.firstflightcorp.com/~firstfli/fleet/grumman-lynx/
 
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sdpilot said:
I would advise against the group purchasing a plane together for the simple fact that you are all most likely not going to follow through until completion. Even if you do you all will progress at different rate and you most likely will not end up saving any money given the high sales tax rate in California as well as insurance and storage costs in San Diego. Hard to say though not knowing what kind of plane and end goals you all have.

Personally if I were you guys I'd look into Plus One where you can rent a nice older 172s with WAAS GPS for $99/hour wet and have the choice of a lot of planes to chose from until you know what you like. G1000 all glass trainers in the fleet start around 150 wet/hour.


http://www.plusoneflyers.org/fleetlist/
Click to expand...

Second this. Unless you have enough spare time that you know all of you will fly at least 100 hrs every year, then you will not beat the deal at Plus One.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
WOW.... looking at the aircraft list... that's not a flying club... that's a private airforce!
 
Thanks for the responses guys!

I have checked out Plus One, and while they don't discuss their dues on-line they seem to be the 'club to join' when the time is right.

I haven't put all the numbers togeather on joint-ownership yet, but we are all looking at the estimated $5,000-$6,000 on rental time during training and thinking that money could be put to better use buying a plane. There are C172's IFR equiped planes available for ~$25K. So the thought is if we pool our estimated rental costs of PPL, we can purchase a plane. Then for the cost of 1/4 maintenance we have a plane at our disposal. Or, if anything, an asset we can then sell a couple of years later and get some of our investment back.

Crazy?
 
I've worked out arrangements with a couple of different similar groups and it's worked out just fine. We have nothing similar to Plus One around here (at least not that I am aware of), so can't comment on that. But the joint ownership for training purposes has been used successfully in the past. The consistency of training in the same airplane that you know will be available is a big plus.
 
I think u guys should buy one than again no experience in that end but the numbers make sense and its logical to do it.
 
malcoholio said:
I haven't put all the numbers togeather on joint-ownership yet, but we are all looking at the estimated $5,000-$6,000 on rental time during training and thinking that money could be put to better use buying a plane. There are C172's IFR equiped planes available for ~$25K.
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Guessing at the affluence of that group, I'm thinking you folks won't much like a $25K C172. Figure on spending twice that for a good training plane that won't look too ratty compared to the cars I'm guessing you drive. Just make sure it's well enough equipped for instrument training as well as primary, including a good GPS like you folks will probably want in the long term (so you learn how to use it and are comfortable with it for instrument training).

But contrary to what Kyle said, I'm thinking this is probably not a bad idea for that group if you start about the same time, progress at the same rate, and finish at the same time. You'll all be ready about the same time for upgrade to something more like what you all probably want for the long term, and then you can sell the trainer and pool your resources for a nice traveling machine with more payload.
 
I don't think you will save much if anything and I highly doubt you will find a 172 you will want to trust your life with for 25k unless it is due for an engine overhaul or very worn out. 50k is ,more realistic assuming you want GPS and some life left in the engine. Make sure you do a detailed cash flow analysis so you're jumping in eyes wide open.

Don't forget about sales tax in CA, property tax, annuals, oil changes, pre buy inspection, ELT replacement, pitot static every 24 months, engine and prop reserve (roughly 15 or 20 an hour for a 172), unexpected maintenance especially on an old plane of 200 a month, tie down @ kmyf around 150-200/month. Your hourly cost will never be less than about 85/hour not factoring first time acquisition costs such as sales tax and pre buy if everything goes perfectly which is highly unlikely. Your gas alone will be about 60 an hour so 99 an hour for a wet rental makes more sense to me for you guys but to each there own. I would recommend talking to other 172 owners for the year your looking at specifically focusing on their costs the first year of owning a 172.

FYI, sales tax pre buy and property tax year 1 for a 172 will be around 7500 before you fly a single hour. Tie down roughly 2k. Google cash flow analysis for a 172 and see what you find.

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
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Ron Levy said:
Guessing at the affluence of that group, I'm thinking you folks won't much like a $25K C172. Figure on spending twice that for a good training plane that won't look too ratty compared to the cars I'm guessing you drive. Just make sure it's well enough equipped for instrument training as well as primary, including a good GPS like you folks will probably want in the long term (so you learn how to use it and are comfortable with it for instrument training).

But contrary to what Kyle said, I'm thinking this is probably not a bad idea for that group if you start about the same time, progress at the same rate, and finish at the same time. You'll all be ready about the same time for upgrade to something more like what you all probably want for the long term, and then you can sell the trainer and pool your resources for a nice traveling machine with more payload.
Click to expand...

+1 a 25k 172 will be less than glamorous.
 
malcoholio said:
We are exploring the idea of trading time/skills/services with a CFI for the goal of attaining our PPL.
Click to expand...

This idea sounds good on paper, but CFI's are generally broke. If one of you owned a burger joint, a cheap apartment complex near the airport, or a twin engine aircraft; then you might be in business.
 
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