Crazy Plane Trip or Motorcycle Trip?

[Ted]

I mentioned my crazy motorcycle trip about a month ago now, and I think I have the times planned out pretty well for it. I also have the motorcycle. It's set up for the trip, I've been riding it around so I'm comfortable on it, etc.

The date is getting nearer, and after talking to some friends and thinking about some of the realities of the situation, I am now wondering if perhaps I should do a plane trip instead of a motorcycle trip. I was thinking I would do the plane trip next year. Here are the points I have come up with:

1) I can only realisitically take 2 weeks off work for this trip. This amounts to about 7000 miles of riding. The way it's spaced out, this gives me pretty much a couple of looooong (700 mile) days, but mostly through areas where it should be reasonably quick.

2) This ends up not giving me a ton of time to spend at any one location (probably dinner-breakfast), and I am stopping in a bunch of places and meeting a bunch of friends or else seeing friends who I haven't seen in a long time. Doesn't exactly give me a ton of visiting time. If I fly, then getting places will take less time, which means more time spent with whoever I'm with. Plus, that means I can take them flying without having to rent a plane.

3) I'm currently a 105 hour pilot, expecting to be at around 130-140 hours by the start of the trip. Also, I would have gotten my instrument rating by that point (that would be a requirement for me), but it would be a pretty fresh ticket.

4) My destinations would almost certainly take me to some pretty high elevations, and I have zero mountain flying experience (see route below)

5) If I flew, I would probably be able to add some more destinations in and thus see some more due to the time saved traveling, which would be good.

If I did a flying trip, I would do it after Osh, and then probably ride the motorcycle to Osh, or else hitch a ride with someone else who's flying there, making a long weekend out of it. So, I would still end up getting to go.

The main reason I decided initially to do the flying trip next year was because of my inexperience at this point in time. Not so much a lack of confidence issue, but just reasoning that perhaps it would make more sense to wait. However, I'm also at a point in my flying career where, for my goals, I need to build hours. This would be a great way to build a bunch of hours. When I talked to my instructor about doing a summer flying trip, he saw no problem with me doing it even if I was VFR only, just understanding that I'd probably run into some delays if I didn't have an IR.

The plane I'd be flying would be the club's Piper Archer II, which is has been a good, reliable plane, and I can fly all day long without complaint. It has a storm scope, twin VORs with one glide slope, but only a VFR GPS.

If I did the flying trip, I would have friends on certain parts, which would at least give someone else to help out in some way for the flight. One of the friends is a student pilot, but knows enough that he could certainly be helpful.

I see myself has having three options:

1) Go ahead and do the motorcycle trip this year, do the flying trip another year

2) Finish the instrument rating, take the Archer, do the flying trip

3) Do a different vacation entirely this year

Thoughts?

 

[CJones]

The only experience I have re: motorcycles is when I would take my roommate's bike to class a few times when weather was nice and he wasn't out riding. I still don't have my license. So I won't address anything related to the motorcycle trip.

As far as flying, only YOU can attest to your comfort level at 100-150hrs of flying time. If you feel comfortable doing such a long trip at relatively low time, go for it! It sounds like fun! If you do decide to go flying, realize that you might not necessarily have more 'free' time when you want it. It is not uncommon to be stuck in one spot for a couple of days when VFR-only (or even IFR for that matter). Personally, I have been stuck in St. Louis for 2 days and I was only trying to get back to central IA. I have also had NUMEROUS 2-3hr trips canceled b/c wx didn't cooperate. Luckily, I never got away from home when I had to cancel, but if I had been 'out' trying to get back, it would not have been fun. You can ride your bike when clouds are low, but you can't fly unless IR.

As far as IR goes - once again, only you can attest to your comfort level for a long trip. Personally, I passed my IR 'ride on a Saturday and on the following Monday, I took off on a 3.5 hr trip, getting ~2.5 hr of solid actual IR time in snow and rain, 1 GPS Approach to 200' above mins and one ILS to 300' above mins at night. That is not a common way to get your feet wet with the IR. The IR ticket is not a 'get out of jail free' card that allows you to go anytime you want. You can still experience long delays trying to get on to your next leg.

RE: Mountain flying. I haven't looked at your route, but if you are planning on getting into some higher alt. areas, get some sort of training ahead of time. High(er) alt ops can be an eye opener if you're not used to it. When we went to Vegas a couple of years ago, climbing out of LVS (6,000'MSL field elevation) in the RV, we were doing 90KIAS at 500fpm. We were still 'performing', but I would not have liked to be in a 172 and have to 'learn' in that situation.

I say do whatever you are comfortable with. Whatever your choice, make sure you don't have a hard deadline to get back for - that's what gets you killed.

One requirement, though -- take pics!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thoughts?

"If ya gotta ask..."

I say, take the motorcycle this year. Inexperienced pilot + time constraints + mountains and weather = recipe for disaster. The plane will still be there next year. Heck, with any luck you'll have your own plane by next year, and it'll fly at night.

If you do go, be sure that you not only allow extra time for weather delays, but also enough time to complete a mountain flying course. (That's what I'm doing later this summer.) Also, make sure you think through the "What if I can't make it all the way to the west coast" and more importantly, "What happens if I get trapped far away from home and need to get back for work?"

For fun, if you can, do what I did - Shoot some approaches out west in the simulator with your CFII, like these:

ILS Y 15 BTM (Yes, that ILS has minimums of 1100 feet!) Notice that there are no Localizer minimums, there's an entirely separate LOC/DME 15 BTM.
Then there's the VOR/DME or GPS-A BTM which has 3,000 foot minimums!
LDA/DME 25 EGE
LOC/DME E ASE

 

[Steve]

Wx's been really crappy for the most part the last few weeks. July is usually rainy in this part of the country, so the next few weeks will likely be more rain. You could get around most of it flying early or late in the day, but that would certainly cut into your miles covered. You could venture out a ways but I'd not try to find a personal maximum this time of year myself.

My 2 cents.

 

[stingray]

After 700 miles on a motorcycle I can tell you you will not be doing anything for 24 hrs after you land. So plan that in. After two 700 mile days you are going to want 3 days rest. Riding a bike long distance is not he same as riding in a car. It wears you out. After 3 700 mile days you will wish you were back in bed at home. This gives you a Get there-Itis also, you just want to get there so you can rest. Not a good thing.

I am in the Plane camp if you are going to go far. Long cross countries are fun and exciting not to mention safe if you do it right. Don't have too much of a plan and just fly around the weather, this way you are never get-there-itis. Don't be in a hurry why would you, throttle back and have fun. Plan something like a Mountain class and instruction when you get into the mountains. Remember go in early and you should have no problem, call ahead and get instructions. Doing a lot of CC helps you understand IFR training better. I know it is possible to pass the IFR test but I think it is better to understand it before hand. I landed once at night at La Grange following the ILS in I think. In the morning I looked out to see this big old mountain close by. Take your Frapper map along could save you some hotel money. If you come by GTG It's good for couple nights stay, fishing, canoing sp?, I'll even let you help mow the runway.

Dan

 

[Ted]

"If ya gotta ask..."

Usually I've only heard that referring prices of items like Ferraris.

I say, take the motorcycle this year. Inexperienced pilot + time constraints + mountains and weather = recipe for disaster. The plane will still be there next year. Heck, with any luck you'll have your own plane by next year, and it'll fly at night.

Oh, this plane flies at night just fine once you get your instrument rating. Before then, they won't give you the secret code to enter at takeoff, and it turns into a pumpkin as soon as the sun disappears.

Waiting until next year, when I will hopefully have my own plane, would be a lot of fun, too, hence it being part of the original idea. Unfortunately, trips like what I want to do here tend to require more time than I can take off of work (now's when I miss being in school and having summer vacations... back when I couldn't afford to do these sorts of things). Of course, there's also nothing that says I can't do both.

To clarify, I'm not asking because it's not something I feel comfortable with doing. It's more for those with some more expeience and who've done this before to point out any "gotchas" or ideas that I wouldn't have come up with on my own. I'm certainly not known for doing things conventionally, regardless of what it is I'm doing.

The long days of flying I see as being significantly preferable to long days of riding, but since the IR isn't the get out of jail free card (but it does help), I realize that there's the possibility of getting stuck somewhere for a while. So long as it's one of my destinations, that part doesn't really bother me.

I suppose another option would be to do my vacation around the Thanksgiving time frame, regardless of which direction I decide to go. We get a 6 day weekend for that, so I could actually take a total of three weeks, which would be significantly more appealing, and put me in a better time of year overall. But then that puts me towards Christmas and such, which is the time of year that I don't care nearly as much about taking a vacation because I get a bunch of time off anyway.

Also, I should add that this was my initial intended route via motorcycle:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=...0.722656&sspn=29.847472,54.140625&ie=UTF8&z=4

Figure if I was flying, I'd take a pretty similar route.

Good food for thought, thanks guys. Still not sure what I'm going to do.

 

[jesse]

I've done my share of big motorcycle trips and will say that 7000 miles in two weeks would be doable--although it would be less than enjoyable for much of the trip. As Stingray points out, you get fatigued over such distances. Try riding 12 hours in the rain, wind, etc.

If it were me, I'd probably take the motorcycle BUT I would shortern it up to 4,000 miles. This would be a lot of fun, cover a lot of distance, and give you more time to spend with some cool people.

I've ridden 300 mile days, 500 mile days, and 1,000 mile days. I can say that 1,000 mile isn't fun for more then one day. 500 miles gets old as well. 300 miles isn't much riding in a day but you can really enjoy the scenery, take back roads, and really see the country.

 

[dmccormack]

The IR ticket is not a 'get out of jail free' card that allows you to go anytime you want. You can still experience long delays trying to get on to your next leg.

Absolutely.

In fact, a common IFR "thought trajectory":

1. "This IFR thing will be great! I'll never have to cancel for weather again!"
2. "I'm so awesome -- I'll be shooting approaches down to minimums -- whatever that is!"
3. "Hmm, why is that needle moving so fast???"
4. "OK, should I answer approach or focus on keeping blue over brown?"
5. "Where Am I???"
6. "OK, I've got this down.. let's punch through some clouds!"
7. "HOLY $#^@! THAT WAS SCARY!"
8. "Thanks for the Temporary Airmen Certificate -- let me see where it's VFR so I can fly home..."
9. "Let's file and punch through this layer.."
10. "HOLY $#^@! THAT WAS SCARY!"
11. "Hmm, it's raining -- will be icy up there..."
12. "Let's try it.. can't be that turbulent..."
13. "HOLY $#^@! THAT WAS SCARY!"
14. "Hmm, it's hot out, will be too bumpy up there..."
15. "Hmmm, there's a SIGMET -- no trip today..."
16. "Let's try it.. can't be that bad...."
17. "There's no body here but me... gulp!"
18. "Maybe my CFII will go with me..."
19. [Some live-through-it-experiences later]
20. "I'll write up some personal weather minimums and use those for a while..."
21. [Some more live-through-it-experiences later]
22. "Let's try it.. can't be that bad..."

And so on until you reach: "No thunderstorms? No Severe Icing? Let's go..."

Until you have another "HOLY $#^@! THAT WAS SCARY!" moment, then return to some earlier level...

 

[dmccormack]

I've ridden 300 mile days, 500 mile days, and 1,000 mile days. I can say that 1,000 mile isn't fun for more then one day. 500 miles gets old as well. 300 miles isn't much riding in a day but you can really enjoy the scenery, take back roads, and really see the country.

Yep. 700+ miles per day turns "Riding" into "enduring."

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Waiting until next year, when I will hopefully have my own plane, would be a lot of fun, too, hence it being part of the original idea.

It'll be cheaper that way too.

To clarify, I'm not asking because it's not something I feel comfortable with doing.

If you already feel comfortable - You're overconfident.

I'm gonna feel completely comfortable with my own west coast trip about the time I get back to Nebraska or South Dakota (depending on which way I come back) and all the rocks are behind me.

It's more for those with some more expeience and who've done this before to point out any "gotchas" or ideas that I wouldn't have come up with on my own. I'm certainly not known for doing things conventionally, regardless of what it is I'm doing.

Nor am I - And I'm the guy who's all about "go go go" and never canceling a flight until the day of and all that - And I usually tell people to go for it on these long cross countries. But in this case, I'm saying "don't do it."

I guess my personal feeling is that a long trip would be good, but THAT long of a trip has an awful lot of new stuff. Push the corners of your envelope one at a time, grasshopper. Have you done a 500nm cross country yet? Do those until they're routine, and THEN do the longer ones.

The long days of flying I see as being significantly preferable to long days of riding, but since the IR isn't the get out of jail free card (but it does help), I realize that there's the possibility of getting stuck somewhere for a while. So long as it's one of my destinations, that part doesn't really bother me.

What if you get stuck in Colorado 2-3 days before you have to be back at work? What if you get stuck there for a week? You don't have to answer those questions here, but you DO have to answer them.

I suppose another option would be to do my vacation around the Thanksgiving time frame, regardless of which direction I decide to go. We get a 6 day weekend for that, so I could actually take a total of three weeks, which would be significantly more appealing, and put me in a better time of year overall.

For driving, or flying? That's gonna be major icing season. Flying, you'd be better off in the summer IMHO.

Figure if I was flying, I'd take a pretty similar route.

Believe it or not, the most desolate part of that route is the part from Boise to Winemucca, NV. Pack plenty of survival gear if you're flying, and buy fuel and whatever else you might want in Jordan Valley if you're driving, it's the last gas station for over 150 miles. There are also free range cattle out there, so be careful on the bike even though you'll have 20+ mile sections of straightaway! You'll pass the Rome VOR out there on your left, though.

It also looks like you'd avoid the highest terrain. Driving, you won't go much above 8,000 feet except for Donner Pass (just after you enter California from Nevada on I-80).

 

[Ted]

Kent, you point out most of the reasons why I wasn't going to do the flying trip this year in the first place.

I have to give some more thought to the motorcycle trip, and whether or not I really want to do it. While I am known for the crazy road trips in general (1000 miles/day isn't unusual...), as you know even better than I do, too many miles in a day gets old. So does doing all those miles solo. Jesse's point to shortening it to 4000 miles might make more sense, although the spots west of the Mississippi are the ones I'm more interested in seeing.

 

[stingray]

Kent, you point out most of the reasons why I wasn't going to do the flying trip this year in the first place.

I have to give some more thought to the motorcycle trip, and whether or not I really want to do it. While I am known for the crazy road trips in general (1000 miles/day isn't unusual...), as you know even better than I do, too many miles in a day gets old. So does doing all those miles solo. Jesse's point to shortening it to 4000 miles might make more sense, although the spots west of the Mississippi are the ones I'm more interested in seeing.

Do you want or need to do this alone? Why not find someone to go along with you. Some old timer pilot might find it a lot of fun, some young gun might also. Think of it like this also a good 20 hrs of IFR flight with a safety pilot. Maybe find someone who needs some safety pilot time also.

Dan

 

[Ted]

Dan, there aren't too many people I want to spend that much time in a plane with. Besides, I'm going to go see all of my friends. A girl would be welcome, but that's pretty short notice to find a girl who I'd want to spend that much time in a plane with, too.

 

[dmccormack]

Dan, there aren't too many people I want to spend that much time in a plane with. Besides, I'm going to go see all of my friends. A girl would be welcome, but that's pretty short notice to find a girl who I'd want to spend that much time in a plane with, too.

Oh, I dunno... there's a whole bunch of Russian girls who'd be happy to go in exchange for a green card!

 

[Ted]

Oh, I dunno... there's a whole bunch of Russian girls who'd be happy to go in exchange for a green card!

I used to date a Russian girl, and learned my lesson! (although that had to do with other factors... she already had her green card)

 

[Ted]

Today was a bad day. I rode the motorcycle to work. When I left work, I decided to go on an extended ride.

As I was riding, my decision was made.

I'm going.

 

[jesse]

Today was a bad day. I rode the motorcycle to work. When I left work, I decided to go on an extended ride.

As I was riding, my decision was made.

I'm going.

Are you going to shorten it up? Or go all out and have a story to tell for quite some time?

 

[Ted]

Are you going to shorten it up? Or go all out and have a story to tell for quite some time?

Going all out. I like having stories to tell, I may as well keep on writing the story of my life.

Want to group ride with the Bandit for a bit? I was hoping to stop out by you, and then after that head towards Colorado. Tony and the Ames crew will be before you.

 

[jesse]

Going all out. I like having stories to tell, I may as well keep on writing the story of my life.

Want to group ride with the Bandit for a bit? I was hoping to stop out by you, and then after that head towards Colorado. Tony and the Ames crew will be before you.

Depends on the dates, when do you expect to be in Ames and when do you expect to be heading through here?

 

[Ted]

Decided to start a new thread with the itinerary, see here:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=320729

 

[dmccormack]

Going all out. I like having stories to tell, I may as well keep on writing the story of my life.

Want to group ride with the Bandit for a bit? I was hoping to stop out by you, and then after that head towards Colorado. Tony and the Ames crew will be before you.

Dude, have you ridden across the plain states before???

Get ready to look forward to seeing a TREE up ahead....

 

[Ted]

Dude, have you ridden across the plain states before???

Get ready to look forward to seeing a TREE up ahead....

Not ridden there before, but I did do my time towing cars cross country, so I've driven there plenty of times.

 

[dmccormack]

Not ridden there before, but I did do my time towing cars cross country, so I've driven there plenty of times.

I wasn't kidding -- while traversing Nebraska I would think -- "Oh look! A TREE!" and get all happy...

It's long, long, long, long flat.....

 

[CJones]

I wasn't kidding -- while traversing Nebraska I would think -- "Oh look! A TREE!" and get all happy...

It's long, long, long, long flat.....

This song is eerily accurate:

 

[stingray]

I wasn't kidding -- while traversing Nebraska I would think -- "Oh look! A TREE!" and get all happy...

It's long, long, long, long flat.....

I think you're allowed to fast forward through NE.

Dan