Crash on Take Off from Gaston's

Graueradler

Graueradler

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Graueradler
This mornings Little Rock paper reports that a Cherokee 140 with three people on board crashed on take off from Gaston's yesterday. Occupants were all able to get themselves out of the wreck. Two are hospitalized in fair condition. Attributed by witness to strong winds.

A friend and I were talking at the Russellville airport yesterday around 1:00. The winds were strong and from the West. He remarked that on a day like this, he would not land at Gaston's because it would be a downwind take off with strong wind. Temperature here was over 80 yesterday afternoon.

Cherokee 140, three adults, probably strong down wind take off, warm day
 
Sounds like a good opportunity to take up Danny Gaston on his oustanding hospitality, borrow a van and an employee for two to drive to BPK, pilot takes off LIGHT, meets van at BPK, generous tip for employee, problem solved (or more accurately, prevented).

Assuming inadequate climb gradient is the cause, one must always listen for "the voice," and heed it.
 
Some say the back seat should be removed and make a two seater out of the P-140. But as Spike mentioned you need to pay attention to the conditions. Experience is a good teacher, but the test comes first and the lesson comes later. If the pilot survives I hope he learns the lesson.
 
I've never computed what kind of winds would make taking off to the west advisable, but it sounds like that computation should have been made. Better yet, take off with one and pick the others up at BPK as Spike recommended.

Dave
 
very sad.
however there is a bright side. This makes my gastons takeoff look that much better.
 
At least everyone is alive. Thats good.

So - the recommended departure from Gastons is to turn over the river as soon as possible, right?
 
SkyHog said:
At least everyone is alive. Thats good.

So - the recommended departure from Gastons is to turn over the river as soon as possible, right?
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The weather yesterday afternoon at Flippin (3.5 NM from Gaston's) reported winds from the west at 14 kts. So the takeoff was downwind on grass (probably wet grass - we've had some rain recently) in an underpowered two-place airplane (IMHO) with three adults on board. He didn't even clear the trees at the end of the runway, much less make the decision to go downriver instead of into the mountain. As those of you who have taken off there know, it's possible to fly between the trees at the end of the runway and follow the river without gaining much altitude. Maybe a mechanical problem, maybe a medical problem, maybe just bad judgement.

Sigh.

Here's a PA28-140 registered to D Mark Willis of Harrison. I assume this is the airplane:
N4316T

Chip
 
This kind of freaks me out a bit. Granted, I have a 180, but it will be hotter come summertime.

I'll need to get over it or leave at first dawn.
 
SkyHog said:
This kind of freaks me out a bit. Granted, I have a 180, but it will be hotter come summertime.

I'll need to get over it or leave at first dawn.
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Dude, if you have a 15 kt wind from the west I'd suggest you don't take off to the east, especially if you're loaded with people, underpowered, yadda, yadda, yadda. Don't let it freak you out. That runway is over 3,000 feet long. If you can't get your 180 up to 200' AGL by then, something is very, very wrong.

Chip
 
gibbons said:
Dude, if you have a 15 kt wind from the west I'd suggest you don't take off to the east, especially if you're loaded with people, underpowered, yadda, yadda, yadda. Don't let it freak you out. That runway is over 3,000 feet long. If you can't get your 180 up to 200' AGL by then, something is very, very wrong.

Chip
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True, true.

I'm a bit unfamiliar with High DA operations out of low altitude fields, unfortunately. 3000 seems a bit short in High DA, but I suppose you're under 1000ft there, so....bah.

I'll do the numbers and fly the book.
 
But Nick, the "high" DA is lower than your field elevation at standard temps. "High" DA at a 600' foot field is about 3000' feet DA. my WAG w/o busting out the wiz wheel.
 
gibbons said:
underpowered two-place airplane (IMHO) with three adults on board. He didn't even clear the trees at the end of the runway, much less make the decision to go downriver instead of into the mountain.
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:hairraise:

I'll be honest, I didn't even do the t/o calculations departing Gaston's last year... But I had a 182, with just me and bags and was nearly 800 undergross as I'd burned off 4.4 hours (about 57 gallons) of fuel off. I just picked an abort spot on the field and decided that if I wasn't off and climbing well by that point, I'd abort. You have plenty of abort room there, just put 'er down and go between the trees.

Nick, I wouldn't worry too much about the 180 unless you're planning on having it fully loaded and fueled. Better to just make the quick hop over the ridge and fuel up at BPK. (Shortest flight of my life, under two minutes IIRC.)
 
N2212R said:
But Nick, the "high" DA is lower than your field elevation at standard temps. "High" DA at a 600' foot field is about 3000' feet DA. my WAG w/o busting out the wiz wheel.
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Our ASOS gives DA in the summer, and at 700, the highest DA I've heard (mid 90's) was something like 2500???
 
Nick,
Last year my C150 climbed out at 300fpm with me (200lbs+), my wife, (120lbs) and half tanks. I did like Chip said, cleared the trees and moved over the river and climbed on out following the river. Don't let it scare you, just use your good judgement.
 
Dean said:
...cleared the trees and moved over the river and climbed on out following the river.
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IIRC, you don't really even have to clear the trees -- there's a nice gap in the trees to go through if you turn right about 10 degrees.
 
Ron Levy said:
IIRC, you don't really even have to clear the trees -- there's a nice gap in the trees to go through if you turn right about 10 degrees.
Click to expand...

Are we talking 6 or 24? Under the proper conditions, I would not have any problems taking off on 24 especially with a bunch of headwind.
 
I had all four seats full, in my 182, last year on take off. We didn't leave until about 1:00 pm. We were light on fuel, and fueled at BPK. We went up an over the hill to BPK no problem. However I didn't have some idiot along the runway with a video camera causing me to head toward the trees on the north side of the runway.:)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Are we talking 6 or 24? Under the proper conditions, I would not have any problems taking off on 24 especially with a bunch of headwind.
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Taking off to the east - RW 6.
Chip
 
Bob Bement said:
I had all four seats full, in my 182, last year on take off. We didn't leave until about 1:00 pm. We were light on fuel, and fueled at BPK. We went up an over the hill to BPK no problem. However I didn't have some idiot along the runway with a video camera causing me to head toward the trees on the north side of the runway.:)
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Bob, I do believe the frequencies ommited by your video camera did jam my "fly by wire" rudder inputs. either that or the extention cord you had drapped across the runway caused me to aim for the trees.
 
When I flew our Cherokee 140 into Gaston's, my personal limit in that airplane was two people in the airplane on take off.

Here's a picture of those trees from Steve See's airplane a few weeks ago. We were on left base for Runway 24.
 

Attachments

  • Gastons left base.JPG
    Gastons left base.JPG
    207 KB · Views: 55
Record #2
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/media/H_0410_Y.txt

The report indicates gusts to 17kts out of 24. Personally, I wouldn't take off with more than 8kts tailwind out of Gaston's. I have used 24 in a Cardinal with 3 onboard with a 12kt headwind. It was a non-event despite the power lines to the west.

This accident is similar to one a few years ago involving a PA28-140. Fortunately, the outcome for this recent one was somewhat better.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20021016X05326&key=1

With Diana on board with me we had no problem clearing the ridge straight ahead off 6 in the IAR... :D

Greg Bockelman said:
Are we talking 6 or 24? Under the proper conditions, I would not have any problems taking off on 24 especially with a bunch of headwind.
Click to expand...
 
I was at 1M1 today and I thought that I heard someone say that the airplane was still in a tree. Did it impact the ground or the top of a tree?
 
The photo in Chip's initial link showed parts in the tree and on the ground.
 
SkyHog said:
This kind of freaks me out a bit. Granted, I have a 180, but it will be hotter come summertime.

I'll need to get over it or leave at first dawn.
Click to expand...

Especially with Mark's butt weighing down your plane, hehehe :D
 
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