Crash in Carrollton GA 2 airplanes down, 3 dead.

orange said:
I'm probably not the only person that re-evaluates whether recreation flying is a good hobby, after each one of these crazy accidents. I mean besides the fact that your own plane can crap out on you and kill you, then the other scenario is that you could be doing everything 100% correctly and get killed by some idiot that is brainless, uses bad judgement, careless, etc.
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Obviously this is a very personal decision that everyone has to make when engaging in a potentially risky hobby or career. I also feel that you always have to re-evaluate whether it's still worth it to you. One of the primary reasons I gave up motocross was when the risk became greater than the reward. In my case, it got to the point where the risk was in the front of my mind, rather than shoved to the back as merely a little voice keeping me in check. Once fear becomes a prominent thought, not only is it no longer fun, it's also unsafe because it's a distraction. A small amount of fear is healthy, but it shouldn't be over-powering.

I feel that the speech my dad gave me when we got into MX is applicable to aircraft-"don't be afraid of the bike, but never lose respect for what it can do to you."

Of course, it is difficult to deal with what you can't as easily prepare for in aviation-the guy cutting into the pattern NORDO, the guy who insists on non-standard patterns, pilots with the heads in the cockpit instead of outside, etc.
 
orange said:
I'm probably not the only person that re-evaluates whether recreation flying is a good hobby, after each one of these crazy accidents. I mean besides the fact that your own plane can crap out on you and kill you, then the other scenario is that you could be doing everything 100% correctly and get killed by some idiot that is brainless, uses bad judgement, careless, etc.
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How is that different from wondering whether driving is a good idea?
Should we give that up too?
 
Do you drive much? That too can be very risky ....with over 50,000 fatals a year that's quite dangerous.
orange said:
I'm probably not the only person that re-evaluates whether recreation flying is a good hobby, after each one of these crazy accidents. I mean besides the fact that your own plane can crap out on you and kill you, then the other scenario is that you could be doing everything 100% correctly and get killed by some idiot that is brainless, uses bad judgement, careless, etc.
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Before every flight, I think to myself, "This is a very cool toy that could very easily kill me if I become complacent or inattentive."

Assuming the slight risk that comes with flying is one of the things that adds to the enjoyment. Twisted, but true (at least for me).
 
RotorDude said:
How is that different from wondering whether driving is a good idea?
Should we give that up too?
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Like other adventure sports, it's not something most people need to do. Unless you live in a city with good public transportation you need to drive.

My perception, having been a pilot all my adult life, is that you are more likely to lose your life flying than driving. I know many people who have died in airplanes. Cars, not so much. But it's up to the individual to make their own decision.
 
iamtheari said:
They just assume that everyone who buys life insurance also drives a car. That's a fair enough assumption. Flying GA is uncommon enough to deserve a separate risk calculus from the rest of the risk pool they are working with. It doesn't mean that flying GA is riskier. It just means that it is a less popular selected risk.
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last quote I got due to my low time, had very high premium the first 3 years and fell down to almost normal afterwards.
 
Everskyward said:
Like other adventure sports, it's not something most people need to do. Unless you live in a city with good public transportation you need to drive.

My perception, having been a pilot all my adult life, is that you are more likely to lose your life flying than driving. I know many people who have died in airplanes. Cars, not so much. But it's up to the individual to make their own decision.
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I guess it's all relative, I known more people personally, to have died in boats than planes.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Yep you would think the Insurance companies would ask about driving a car.
There are 3287 deaths each day from car crashes according to this website
http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics
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This is how statistics can be skewed... everyone used to say the most dangerous part of a flight is the drive to the airport. That is actually true... if you're an airline pilot. One of the aviation magazines (maybe Plane and Pilot) did a story a few years ago. The statistics actually showed that based on the average number of hours of operation per year (40), general aviation is more dangerous than riding a motorcycle, driving a car, boating, etc.

If 3287 people per day are dying in cars, how many people are driving and how many of them drive an hour or two to work and back each day? How many GA pilots average 30 or 60 hours per month in a plane? I bet most people average that in a car.
 
Everskyward said:
Like other adventure sports, it's not something most people need to do. Unless you live in a city with good public transportation you need to drive.

My perception, having been a pilot all my adult life, is that you are more likely to lose your life flying than driving. I know many people who have died in airplanes. Cars, not so much. But it's up to the individual to make their own decision.
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I have found private flying to be no less useful than driving cars. It has made a huge difference in my ability to be places over the years in a practical manner. For both business and pleasure, if the best transportation mode is too much of a hassle, it rules out that particular mission for me, unless absolutely essential. And in my case, flying my plane has very often been the ideal way to do it, and has therefore made big parts of my life possible.
As far as accidents, I am an avid student of all aviation accidents, and it's very clear to me that as an individual pilot and owner, you pretty much control your own safety by your behavior.
I know that people who don't fly privately, even if they are part of GA, don't realize the real utility of private flying, so I guess am not surprised.
 
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midcap said:
I guess it's all relative, I known more people personally, to have died in boats than planes.
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I don't think I know anyone who died in a boat although I do know someone who died in a bathtub...
 
RotorDude said:
I have found private flying to be no less useful than driving cars. It has made a huge difference in my ability to be places over the years in a practical manner. For both business and pleasure, if the best transportation mode is too much of a hassle, it rules out that particular mission for me, unless absolutely essential. And in my case, flying my plane has very often been the ideal way to do it, and has therefore made big parts of my life possible.
I know that people who don't fly privately, even if they are part of GA, don't realize the real utility of private flying, so I guess am not surprised.
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If I want to run any type of errand, go to work, go anywhere actually, I need to do it in my car. I can walk to the mailbox structure but it's a mile away. I wouldn't do any of these things in an airplane, except maybe travel to a destination that is >100 miles away. But then I would need to drive to the airport.
 
Everskyward said:
If I want to run any type of errand, go to work, go anywhere actually, I need to do it in my car. I can walk to the mailbox structure but it's a mile away. I wouldn't do any of these things in an airplane, except maybe travel to a destination that is >100 miles away. But then I would need to drive to the airport.
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No doubt. Every mode of transportation has its own "sweet spot" of utility. If I need to go from A to B, I decide on best way to do it: walk, bike, drive, take the bus, airline, my own plane, etc. Weather plays a role too. It would be dumb (or at least very inefficient) to use an airplane like a car.
 
So close to the airport. An awful tragedy.

I hope this didn't happen due to someone not using a radio.
 
midcap said:
I guess it's all relative, I known more people personally, to have died in boats than planes.
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I've had two friends die in motorcycle accidents in the last three years. Partly, it's a function of the personality types that are drawn to sport bikes, but anyone can draw the black marble out of a hat...bikes don't offer much protection. I hope I never have a friend/acquaintance die in an airplane, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
RotorDude said:
No doubt. Every mode of transportation has its own "sweet spot" of utility. If I need to go from A to B, I decide on best way to do it: walk, bike, drive, take the bus, airline, my own plane, etc. Weather plays a role too. It would be dumb (or at least very inefficient) to use an airplane like a car.
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True, but I don't think there's any way someone can say private flying is as useful as driving a car, as you did in a previous post. By the same token, you can do without an airplane. Most people cannot do without a car, unless they live where there is good public transportation.
 
Everskyward said:
True, but I don't think there's any way someone can say private flying is as useful as driving a car, as you did in a previous post. By the same token, you can do without an airplane. Most people cannot do without a car, unless they live where there is good public transportation.
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Perhaps it depends on your individual circumstances. Looking back over the years, I can clearly see that the use of a private airplane has essentially made my life as I know it possible, both professionally and personally. Sure, we can make do without any modern amenity or tool, all the way down to electricity and running water. For me, the utility of a private aircraft at my disposal 24x7 to go anywhere (weather permitting, within a certain range band) is in the same category as those essentials, along with a car or a phone.
 
RotorDude said:
Perhaps it depends on your individual circumstances. Looking back over the years, I can clearly see that the use of a private airplane has essentially made my life as I know it possible, both professionally and personally. Sure, we can make do without any modern amenity or tool, all the way down to electricity and running water. For me, the utility of a private aircraft at my disposal 24x7 to go anywhere (weather permitting, within a certain range band) is in the same category as those essentials, along with a car or a phone.
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Which would you give up if you had to make the choice, flying or driving?
 
Everskyward said:
Which would you give up if you had to make the choice, flying or driving?
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Which would you give up, water or electricity? or maybe phone?
It would really depend on the situation.
In my case, if I rewind my life and assume I had no private plane available, it would be a completely different life, much worse from my present perspective. Without a car? I had periods of my (early) life without a car, and it wasn't the end of the world, you just learn to work around it. The point being, these are all life-changing tools that shape our lives. To try to say that one is more important than another is missing the point.
 
Exactly what faa study's report. One aircraft overtaking another while in or near the pattern. Impossible to see through the bottom of an airplane no matter how hard you look outside . Communication is so important .
 
RotorDude said:
Which would you give up, water or electricity? or maybe phone?
It would really depend on the situation.
In my case, if I rewind my life and assume I had no private plane available, it would be a completely different life, much worse from my present perspective. Without a car? I had periods of my (early) life without a car, and it wasn't the end of the world, you just learn to work around it. The point being, these are all life-changing tools that shape our lives. To try to say that one is more important than another is missing the point.
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I would give up flying before driving, water, electricity, or phone, and I do it for a living. If I had never learned how to fly, my life would have been different, but that's about all I can say.
 
Everskyward said:
I would give up flying before driving, water, electricity, or phone, and I do it for a living. If I had never learned how to fly, my life would have been different, but that's about all I can say.
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What if you lived in a community that has free bus service, including to the local airport, and your employer lets you fly anywhere you want in the world? Would you still give up flying to have a private car?
 
RotorDude said:
What if you lived in a community that has free bus service, including to the local airport, and your employer lets you fly anywhere you want in the world? Would you still give up flying to have a private car?
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Yes...

But that's not going to happen so it's an unrealistic example.

Is my employer going to let me take the work airplane for free? I don't think so...
 
Everskyward said:
Yes...

But that's not going to happen so it's an unrealistic example.

Is my employer going to let me take the work airplane for free? I don't think so...
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No, I meant fly free on other airlines, like the airline employee perk.
 
RotorDude said:
No, I meant fly free on other airlines, like the airline employee perk.
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I think we should quit hijacking this thread, but to me, a private car is immeasurably more practical than a private airplane. That's why I get annoyed when people compare flying to driving as people were doing earlier. I have no problem with you feeling otherwise.
 
Everskyward said:
I think we should quit hijacking this thread, but to me, a private car is immeasurably more practical than a private airplane. That's why I get annoyed when people compare flying to driving as people were doing earlier. I have no problem with you feeling otherwise.
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I agree about the hijacking, so final word, but we are obviously seeing things very differently when it comes to private planes. I don't get annoyed when people express their honest opinions, and also have no problem with your attachment to private cars (I like cars too :)).
 
mscard88 said:
Hey ya oughta check out Moontown (grass) just east of Huntsville Al, or maybe Peach State in Ga., both cool airports. Peach State has a restaurant called Barnstormer's. These two would be a lot more interesting stop than Carrollton. Museum too at Peach State.
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Thanks but Moontown is one hour west of my flight plan line and Peach State is a little further than I want to go for the first day of flying with a ground speed of around 70 MPH. Carrollton has MOGAS which my engine likes and I like the price. I will keep these two airports in mind for another time.

While I do have a small window to see above, mainly used in turns, I can't see traffic behind me that always is going faster than my Cub. I fly a tight pattern to let the fast movers, everyone else, fly to my right and see me as they look at the airport.
 
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orange said:
I'm probably not the only person that re-evaluates whether recreation flying is a good hobby, after each one of these crazy accidents. I mean besides the fact that your own plane can crap out on you and kill you, then the other scenario is that you could be doing everything 100% correctly and get killed by some idiot that is brainless, uses bad judgement, careless, etc.
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I never contemplate not driving after a fatal car crash. I'd rather go out in a crash than live without flying. But everyone has to make their own priorities.
 
I doubt either airplane was NORDO, but being on the wrong frequency is always a possibility at an uncontrolled field.
 
N747JB said:
I doubt either airplane was NORDO, but being on the wrong frequency is always a possibility at an uncontrolled field.
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Or, even worse, having a radio, being on the right frequency and not making proper/timely calls.
 
Is it just me, or does it look like the prop of the Bo sliced through the cockpit of the Diamond?
 
orange said:
I'm probably not the only person that re-evaluates whether recreation flying is a good hobby, after each one of these crazy accidents. I mean besides the fact that your own plane can crap out on you and kill you, then the other scenario is that you could be doing everything 100% correctly and get killed by some idiot that is brainless, uses bad judgement, careless, etc.
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I had never felt this way about flying until I started working in Ag. I had to say goodbye to a close friend that died while night spraying not to long ago. It is a hard deal. I think flying is as safe or as dangerous as we choose. Good ADM, and recurrent training work wonders at reducing the risk.
 
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