Crandall calls for reregulating industry...

See, I'd be opposed to the subsidies. That's not free market. It's more akin to regulation - the government is favoring an entity over another. You'll also find that I'm opposed to local subsidies to build sports stadiums and similar structures. If the franchise can't support the operations, including infrastructure costs, maybe there's a reason.

<hijack>

I don't have a problem with local subsidies. If that is what the taxpayers in that jurisdiction want, so be it, and far be it from me to say no. I won't live there, but that's OK...

Federal is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

</hijack>

The only problem with legacies pooping the bed is I'll lose my status. And while I'll mourn miles and respect from a particular airline if they fail... that's not enough for me to sign on to a big bailout.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
OK, back.

Please note the attached, an IAP and Departure Mins, Southwest-specific, Seattle in this instance.

Note that the IAP to 16L is Cat II and Cat III, decision height 50' and RVR of 700'. "Special Aircrew and Aircraft Certification Required."

SWA does equip aircraft with Heads-up display.

Note also the other attachment- departure mins of 300 RVR.

So, you were saying...?
 

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AFA pax rail is concerned, unless a RR could own its track, it'll never work here. Only the NE Corridor works for HS rail because Amtrak has dedicated tracks. Everywhere else pax service rides at as a second class citizen to the freights who own the rails. Besides, I think HS Rail is only really competitive for maybe a 300mi trip in terms of time.

High speed rail on freight tracks is an engineering nightmare as well as a scheduling quagmire. All curves on a railroad are engineered with a certain amount of "superelevation". The outside rail (called the high rail) is higher than the inside (low) rail. The amount of this elevation difference is a function of two things. (1) the degree of curvature. ans (2) the average speed of the most prevalent loaded train that negotiates the curve. Say it's an 8 degree curve on a 2% uphill grade that mostly sees 15,000 ton coal trains. Those trains might pull that hill at 18 miles an hour or so depending on the amount of power (locomotives) used. The superelevation of that curve might be 1.5 to 2 inches. This keeps the load balanced beteween the low and high rails, minimizing rail wear and the tendency to "roll" the low rail, causing a low speed derailment.
With the vast majority of rail traffic being the freight (coal in this scenario) there's no real safe and practical way to accomodate a 60 - 80 MPH AMTRAK train on the same track even if you didn't have to allow for meeting/passing of slower traffic. Long ago, the railroads saw that the airlines were going to be the passenger kings, and sold off the property used for the "other" track that ran parallel to the present day track that was used to move passenger trains on the other direction. There were other reasons as well, mostly due to signal technology improvements.

Almost all major railroad routes across the US were double track. This has obvious advantages in maintenance as well. Need to take a section out of service for repairs? No problem. Just run on one track for a mile or two and then cross back over. Additionally, for high speed rail, you'd have to find a way to keep the Darwin candidates from running their cars in front of and into the side of the trains. People can't seem to avoid 50 MPH freights, can you see them avoiding 100+ MPH passenger rail?
A high speed rail from say, ATL to LAX on a dedicated track would require tens of billions of $$ to purchase the right of way and construct. And even if you did, does anyone really believe that Dallas, Alberquerque or even Birmingham, Alabama city fathers would allow a "bullet" train to just blow by them without allowing their good citizens the opportunity to even get on? By the time you had to make all those little time consuming stops, you'd have the slowest high speed rail in th world.

My $.02
 
High speed rail on freight tracks is an engineering nightmare as well as a scheduling quagmire. All curves on a railroad are engineered with a certain amount of "superelevation". The outside rail (called the high rail) is higher than the inside (low) rail. The amount of this elevation difference is a function of two things. (1) the degree of curvature. ans (2) the average speed of the most prevalent loaded train that negotiates the curve. Say it's an 8 degree curve on a 2% uphill grade that mostly sees 15,000 ton coal trains. Those trains might pull that hill at 18 miles an hour or so depending on the amount of power (locomotives) used. The superelevation of that curve might be 1.5 to 2 inches. This keeps the load balanced beteween the low and high rails, minimizing rail wear and the tendency to "roll" the low rail, causing a low speed derailment.
Interesting post, I always thought that superelevation was called "cant deficiency" is it the same thing?

Also FWIW, I really think that the free market will ultimately make serious decisions about who will die and who will live in the airline world.

Also FWIW, I personally think that people tend to assume that demand for air travel is inelastic. It isn't. So many meetings that people head on are totally unnecessary BS meetings where a tel con could have worked. (Please don't berate me claiming your trips are somehow essential, I'm sure there are some that truly are.) Most pleasure travel will simply be scaled back to accommodate higher costs of tickets.

I could write more, but I won't.
 
Also FWIW, I really think that the free market will ultimately make serious decisions about who will die and who will live in the airline world.

Also FWIW, I personally think that people tend to assume that demand for air travel is inelastic. It isn't. So many meetings that people head on are totally unnecessary BS meetings where a tel con could have worked. (Please don't berate me claiming your trips are somehow essential, I'm sure there are some that truly are.) Most pleasure travel will simply be scaled back to accommodate higher costs of tickets.

exactly my point. Forget regulation to improve the economics of the industry - the market will take care of that itself. It'll just take longer due to the high capital requirement to get in (even there, it will depend on the lease commitments... or the contracts with the commuter airlines).

I've canceled a meeting this week that I might have busted my tail to make were the fares in the $200-$300 range. At $800, I can't make it make sense - we can just do it later (if we do it at all). Having a cold doesn't help, but there's a lot more flexibility at $200/$250 than there is at 3x the cost. Likewise, I take Acela from DC-NY because it's half the cost of the airline, without the ATC/weather issues.

I've been saying for some time that the increased fares will give real-life data on the elasticity of demand for air travel. We've already seen changed behavior (elasticity) in gasoline for cars..... interesting data shows that the average Prius spends about 15 days on the dealer lot at the moment, compared to 30-something+ days a year ago.
 
High speed rail on freight tracks is an engineering nightmare as well as a scheduling quagmire....

My $.02

Oh, I agree completely. The rails are owned by the freight cos, and operated accordingly. I can't even begin to imagine the cost of rebuilding a passenger rail network today. How on earth could you get the land? Environmental approvals? Passengers??

I don't know if it's true for all of the TGV routes, but as I recall from my rides the entire route was fenced and I don't recall any grade crossings (Paris-Geneva). I think the DBs ICE routes have some grade crossings, but it has been a while since I rode the high speed rails over there.
 
OK, back.

Please note the attached, an IAP and Departure Mins, Southwest-specific, Seattle in this instance.

We otta put this in the IFR forum ;). Sorry man, but when I clicked on the attatchment I got a fuzzy enlargement that I could barely read. No biggie because I have a chart just like it. The shadow next to the number just means that this chart is issued for special coverages. If it were specific to Southwest or any other airline it would be green in color and the numbering would start with 10-0 (Such as 10-0a, 10-0b, etc.).

Note that the IAP to 16L is Cat II and Cat III, decision height 50' and RVR of 700'. "Special Aircrew and Aircraft Certification Required."

You are looking at the 21-1 page. The "Special Aircrew and Aircraft Certification Required" does not appear on my copy because everyone at my airline is authorized to do this procedure. Going back to my last post, any certificate holder who operates below basic turbojet minimums must be authorized. Again, from my last post, a good way to think of this is that the mins listed on the plate (Or the 20-9 page for that matter), apply to the runway and not the crew or the airplane. You cant slap a SWA crew into a plane that is good for a 300 or 600 RVR landing and go fly the approach. The crew and the certificate holder have to be authorized too. Same thing goes for the departure mins. This isnt part 91. The crew has to have special training and authorization to do this.

SWA does equip aircraft with Heads-up display.

This is infact true. The 700s do have HUD. From everything I have been able to gather they are planning to certify its use beyond CAT I minimums.

Note also the other attachment- departure mins of 300 RVR.

See above. One thing that might help is for you to go to wikepedia and look up flight 1248. This is the one that ran off the end of the runway at Midway and critically injured a carload of people and killed a 6 year old boy. If you have time and energy pull up the NTSB report also. It is a tragic comedy of errors that gives some chilling insight into the corporate mentality regarding safety at SWA. The crew cut a bunch of safety corners and made jokes about it . Instead of diverting to ORD which was 10 minutes away they flew an approach below minimums in a tailwind exeeding limitations. The NTSB noted "psyhcological pressure to complete the task " and not create considerable additional operational expenses by diverting as one the reason for flying an approach in unfavorable conditions. The crew did not use or understand the proper operation of the autobrake system ( any newhire on his first day of OE at any other airline in America would know how to use autobrakes and they are recomended for CAT II and required at most airlines for CAT III). Theres alot more, go read the report.
I will always disagree with pilots like you and Tim Metzinger and Flyersfan31 who condone careless and reckless operation of aircraft. I would rather quit flying and drive a truck for a living before I would work for an airline that pressured me into risking peoples lives. If your family ever rides in the back of my plane you can rest assured that I will never knowingly comprimise their safety. If this makes me an "Ass Talker" then let me turn around and pull down my shorts so you can hear me better. Have you got a breath mint.

So, you were saying...?
 
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Interesting post, I always thought that superelevation was called "cant deficiency" is it the same thing?

Cant deficiency is actually a reference to an acceleration or speed allowance that a train can run "under balance speed" or "over balance speed" by a certain amount expressed in inched of cant deficiency. Here in the US it's just called "under balance speed" or "over balance speed" mostly. As in "at the time of the derailment, the train was in a 10 degree curve, running 5 mph under balance speed".
It's pretty well explained here:

http://zierke.com/shasta_route/sidenotes/cant-def.html
 
Click, click, click.

One click brings up the image (small), second click makes it bigger (screen-sized), third click blows it up really big. But I'll give you the Cliffs' Notes- these are SWA-specific procedures. For whatever it is worth, detail-man, the HUDs have been joining the fleet for years. I even have a nice picture of my son in the sim showing the HUD in the background; that was about 2.5 years ago, and it was not new then.

As for the comments about the tragedy at MDW, I guess I wonder how those nail holes in your hands are doing; every flight crew feels pressure to complete every flight, but it's how you respond to any given event that matters. Most every aircraft accident starts with a failure to follow procedure, and sometimes bad things happen.

Still, you cannot cheat the laws of gravity, taxation or probability. With by far the most daily flight ops of any carrier, you simply cannot fake safety. I have to admit, I have a bit more legitimate knowledge of the culture of safety and excellence that permeates at Southwest, but by now, that knowledge is not all that important to our discussion.

There is something that is more telling.

I have had the privilege of becoming acquainted with a pretty good number of professional pilots (airline, military, fractional and 135), as have a great many of the participants on this board, and I don't know of any who would make blanket condemnation of another operator without actual and intimate knowledge- something substantive, not "I know some guys who tell me about cowboy stuff." It is just not done, at least, not by legitimate professionals, and most certainly not without actual and legitimate knowledge. Pilots, and committed air-safety professionals, recognize and emulate best practices.

Now, an example of useful information: someone definitively (and derisively) posts that a carrier does not have Cat II or Cat III cert, and specimens of carrier-specific IAPs are provided (scanned in black & white, indeed they are) to refute; this is known as evidence. You may opt to disregard it if you choose, but one's ignorance of the facts does not make them any less true.

We always welcome a rousing good-faith discussion, especially one that promotes open understanding of genuine issues of safety and character. I do apologize to all who read this thread for using the "talking out of your ass" expression- it was beneath the ordinary level of discourse for our forum. I'll recast it, then, by saying this- blatantly false statements, easily-refuted (example: "From everything I have been able to gather they are planning to certify its use beyond CAT I minimums. Time will tell i guess.") just don't allow for a reasonably critical reader to conclude the writer has any actual knowledge.
 
SC, one more (3RD) time. These procedures apply to anyone who is authorized to use them.
Undoubtedly true. And it ways at the top of the procedure "Southwest HGS Only" so they're the ones authorized.

HGS refers to Heads-up Guidance System.
http://www.rockwellcollins.com/news/page9606.html said:
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (October 09, 2007) - Rockwell Collins announced it has delivered its 500th Head-up Guidance System (HGS®) to Southwest Airlines.
"In our 15-year relationship with Southwest Airlines, our HGS systems - which are present on the entire fleet - have enabled Cat IIIa landing performance while providing enhanced situational awareness, operational efficiency and touchdown precision," said John Desmond, vice president, HGS for Rockwell Collins. "We are proud that our relationship with Southwest Airlines continues to grow and flourish because of the proven capabilities of our HGS systems on their fleet."
 
FYI: the 700 makes up 313 of Southwest's 527 aircraft (as of 16 May). The HUD installs are not limited to -700s. The IIIa ops are not new to SWA.
 
Ok, Guys. I declare a stalemate here. You are running around the same tree.

I have stayed out of this because I do not have anything definitive to say. However I will say this:

I have had the pleasure of jumpseating occasionally on SWA when trying to get to work. They are definitely more "relaxed" in the cockpit than other carriers I have ridden on. Hot Dogs? Or Cowboys? I wouldn't say that.

Also, I have seen the HGS hardware on their airplanes. This I DO know. They would not spend the money on the hardware if they had no intentions of using it.
 
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You are, of course, correct Greg. Thank you for reminding me.
 
Interesting post, I always thought that superelevation was called "cant deficiency" is it the same thing?

Also FWIW, I really think that the free market will ultimately make serious decisions about who will die and who will live in the airline world.

Also FWIW, I personally think that people tend to assume that demand for air travel is inelastic. It isn't. So many meetings that people head on are totally unnecessary BS meetings where a tel con could have worked. (Please don't berate me claiming your trips are somehow essential, I'm sure there are some that truly are.) Most pleasure travel will simply be scaled back to accommodate higher costs of tickets.

I could write more, but I won't.

On your second point Rob, I think we could debate until the cows come home. I know that in my world, we're all on the road because meat beats a TV and a phone call.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
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