Couple of things- cost for a prop and annual budget, used gps

N2124v

N2124v

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N2124V
Ok, I'm looking at a 1969 Cessna 182M.

Two questions-

What is a good figure to budget for an annual, assuming nothing major?

What Is the overhaul cost on a prop, or upgrade to three blade?

Used certified GPS? Garmin 430 type?

Edited-should have said 182.....
 
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Owner-assisted annual?

First annual or subsequent annual?

My cherokee 140 runs me generally less than $750 per annual, unless there are major things that need repair/replacement. That's owner-assisted.

First annual after buying an airplane? (no pun) Sky's the limit.
 
Just curious ... why would you want a 3-blade on a 172? What makes you consider it an "upgrade"?

The cost of an annual will vary widely, depending on the mechanic and your location. Could be $500 or $1800. Most likely not much more than that without something major or the airplane being a basket case.

As for the used 430, I think you will find that the installation may cost as much as the unit. It can vary widely depending on what's already in the panel, whether they have to move things around to make room, and whether that existing antique wiring crumbles during the work.
 
N2124v said:
What is a good figure to budget for an annual, assuming nothing major?
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I think most shops advertise flat rates for the inspection alone around $1000, but my 35 years experience owning planes in that class suggests a $2000 budget is wise.

What Is the overhaul cost on a prop,
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Prop shop will charge about $300, plus shipping and the labor to remove/replace the prop. Budget $500 to be on the safe side.

or upgrade to three blade?
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AFAIK, the only 3-bladed prop you can get for a 172M with stock engine is the MT electric prop for about $14K.

Used certified GPS?
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About $5K including installation, annuciator, upgraded CDI, certification, etc, for something like a KLN-94.

Garmin 430 type?
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About $10-12K with tax, tags, and freight.

You may hear some lowball numbers on used GPS installations, but when you dig into them, you'll find they either include the owner doing most of the work, or don't include the accessories you'll need like an annunciator or CDI. Shop carefully.
 
More accurately, the single-biggest determinent of first-year MX cost is the pre-buy inspection. A good pre-buy can pay for itself many times over.

Bob Noel said:
First annual after buying an airplane? (no pun) Sky's the limit.
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First annual after a purchase for me was $18,000ish. I expected this going in, and I still have some things to spend money on (radios, etc.).

Overhaul cost flat-fee (assuming not scrapped) for the prop overhauls on my apache was $3,500 a side but the blades were scrapped and new ones were $2,500 additional. These are two-blade full-feathering C/S props.
 
Apache123 said:
Overhaul cost flat-fee (assuming not scrapped) for the prop overhauls on my apache was $3,500 a side but the blades were scrapped and new ones were $2,500 additional. These are two-blade full-feathering C/S props.
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The stock prop on a 172M is neither feathering nor constant speed nor even variable pitch (at least, not without some big heavy tools). But it does have two blades, although unlike yours, they are integral with the hub. Overhaul really is only a few hundred for such a prop.
 
Yes, owner assisted annual. I like getting in there and knowing how things work. It makes it so much easier to explain what's going on to the maintenance pros.

Sorry for the goof, I meant a 182M... A three bladed 172 could be interesting....
 
N2124v said:
Sorry, 182M.....
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Then a couple-three thousand for overhaul is more like it. IIRC, upgrade to a 3-bladed prop will run you something like $8k less trade-in for your old prop. You get smoother and quieter operation, but I doubt if you'll see any significant performance improvement unless you get one with a really modern high-tech blade shape/airfoil.
 
Thanks Ron. Now the budget for the Instrument Rating....
 
Prop shop prices are widely varied you'd best call and check.

Advised on the internet is worth what you pay for it.

There are a few STCed prop changes for the 172, depending upon which 172 you have. Again check the local Prop shop and ask the experts.
 
Tom-D said:
Prop shop prices are widely varied you'd best call and check.

Advised on the internet is worth what you pay for it.

There are a few STCed prop changes for the 172, depending upon which 172 you have. Again check the local Prop shop and ask the experts.
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Advice on the Internet is even worse when the poster doesn't realize the OP corrected himself to say it's a 182, not a 172.
 
I'd budget $2k for the annual as mentioned, if you do better, good deal.

I wouldn't bother with old technology. It's like me selling someone an original iPhone for $100, it doesn't make sense. You can get a GTN 650 installed for about $12.5K w/ a warranty.
 
I couldn't figure it out either, hence no comment in the initial response. Say what?

N2124v said:
Yes, owner assisted annual. I like getting in there and knowing how things work. It makes it so much easier to explain what's going on to the maintenance pros.

Sorry for the goof, I meant a 182M... A three bladed 172 could be interesting....
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Thanks everyone! Also while I'm asking, rough cost for an autopilot? More than a wing leveler, but one tat will fly an approach might be over kill, but then again, maybe not.
 
N2124v said:
Thanks everyone! Also while I'm asking, rough cost for an autopilot? More than a wing leveler, but one tat will fly an approach might be over kill, but then again, maybe not.
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My answer: Do NOT buy the plane.

You're not just coming out with the full detail of what you're trying to do, but so far this sounds like a story we see weekly here. That story is that everyone wants a good airplane with GPS, autopilot, nav heads, etc. They see the price difference between those that are setup and those that are not and think they could save some money by just adding it all to a cheaper bird.

How am I doing so far?

Bottom line: it's a buyers market. Find one setup the way you want, flying frequently, in annual, pay the small premium. You'll come out way ahead and be able to go fly vs. going to the shop to check progress.
 
Alex, that's what am heading towards. Just trying to get some numbers in my head for the difference between a plane with nothing and a plane with everything, and what it will cost to get stuff added.
 
N2124v said:
Alex, that's what am heading towards. Just trying to get some numbers in my head for the difference between a plane with nothing and a plane with everything, and what it will cost to get stuff added.
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If I am going to add something to an airplane I want it to be desirable and set me apart from similar aircraft. This will give me an advantage if I ever have to sell. That's why I said GTN 650 above. For an autopilot I would think STEC 55X GPS steering, etc. I'd ballpark $30k to get it done. You might do something else for the $20k range.

Why not just try and get a good deal on something like this:

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...SKYLANE/1973-CESSNA-182P-SKYLANE/1232987.htm?

Add all that up, way more to build it vs. buy it.
 
Because I don't have $120,000 to spend on a plane.
 
A shop near San Antonio was advertising a S-tech 30A installed for less than 10k. Haven't checked the rags lately to see if he's still there.
N2124v said:
Thanks everyone! Also while I'm asking, rough cost for an autopilot? More than a wing leveler, but one tat will fly an approach might be over kill, but then again, maybe not.
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N2124v said:
Because I don't have $120,000 to spend on a plane.
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Ok. Well it's your thread you can handle it any way you want. Some people here (not me) broker airplanes for a living and could give you some options if you decide to share your budget, needs, etc. Otherwise we're all just shooting in the dark, which isn't real productive.
 
Alex, thanks, sorry that last post was a little snapish. I'm looking to spend around $60k for my initial outlay then add stuff as I go along. I've found what seems to be nice 1969 182M that has king radios, dme, etc, mid time engine, and 3000 or so ttaf, that would be a great flyer from the start. I've yet to find one for sale that has gps and autopilot even in the $75k range which would be a stretch for me. Also, My job (real estate) keeps me from wanting to take on a lot of monthly debt since pay checks come in chunks.

I'm looking at it like this. Sell a $300,000 house, there is a GPS, sell a $600,000 commercial property, there's an autopilot. Plus then I have some depreciable items for the tax man.
 
N2124v said:
Alex, thanks, sorry that last post was a little snapish. I'm looking to spend around $60k for my initial outlay then add stuff as I go along. I've found what seems to be nice 1969 182M that has king radios, dme, etc, mid time engine, and 3000 or so ttaf, that would be a great flyer from the start. I've yet to find one for sale that has gps and autopilot even in the $75k range which would be a stretch for me. Also, My job (real estate) keeps me from wanting to take on a lot of monthly debt since pay checks come in chunks.

I'm looking at it like this. Sell a $300,000 house, there is a GPS, sell a $600,000 commercial property, there's an autopilot. Plus then I have some depreciable items for the tax man.
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That helps a lot. How about what you plan to use the plane for, IFR/VFR, long family trips, local flying, etc? Basically just describe your mission. Those things factor a lot into recommendations for upgrades.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Bottom line: it's a buyers market. Find one setup the way you want, flying frequently, in annual, pay the small premium. You'll come out way ahead and be able to go fly vs. going to the shop to check progress.
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Something to consider: If you end up finding an airplane the way you want it, please do a VERY thorough pre-buy to make sure all the gadgets and such work and will continue to work long enough to make the extra dollars worth it.

Something else to consider: if you haven't owned an aircraft (and possibly even if you have), there is the upgrade trap. You buy the airplane, and then soon decide you want some newer gadget or radio or something. Great, now something has to come out of the panel in order to make room. You might have been better off buying a more spartan aircraft.

If I were to buy another airplane (once I sell my 140), I would probably focus on the solid airframe, with a runout engine, and next to nothing for avionics. I'd rather add the stuff myself and really know it'll work for a long time, than hope and pray that the used stuff will.

And yes, I know the conventional wisdom is to buy the airplane already equipped just right.
 
N2124v said:
Thanks everyone! Also while I'm asking, rough cost for an autopilot? More than a wing leveler, but one tat will fly an approach might be over kill, but then again, maybe not.
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The S-Tec 20 is a pretty good basic a/p for a plane like a 182. It does wing leveling, command turns, headings, and tracks a VOR radial or GPS course once you get the needle close to centered yourself (or flying the heading bug). I believe you'll find that runs about $7-10K installed. There's also an available GPSS roll steering module for about another $2K if you have a GPS. Adding altitude hold makes it an S-Tec 30, and I think that runs another $4K or so. For a full featured "hands off approach" a/p like the S-Tec 55, you're talking $17K and up, depending on features.
 
Bob Noel said:
Something else to consider: if you haven't owned an aircraft (and possibly even if you have), there is the upgrade trap. You buy the airplane, and then soon decide you want some newer gadget or radio or something. Great, now something has to come out of the panel in order to make room.
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OTOH, the avionics today are generally more compact and more capable than the older equipment. For example, if you put a 430 in the panel, it takes up about the same space as the King or Narco nav/comm it displaces, and you can get rid of the ADF and DME to boot. You end up with more empty panel space rather than less.
 
Ron Levy said:
You end up with more empty panel space rather than less.
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That's what I was keeping in mind as I kick tires on the internet postings. A GNS430/SL30 combo is extremely compact when compared to some of the larger "analog display" radios some planes still have.

The possibility appears to exist of shedding 8 to 12 lbs of weight from removed items and replacing with the modern components.
 
Ron Levy said:
Then a couple-three thousand for overhaul is more like it. IIRC, upgrade to a 3-bladed prop will run you something like $8k less trade-in for your old prop. You get smoother and quieter operation, but I doubt if you'll see any significant performance improvement unless you get one with a really modern high-tech blade shape/airfoil.
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McCauley three blade made our 182Q climb like a homesick angel, the speed seems unchanged however.
 
Most flights will be around 200nm one way a couple of times a week, with some longer, 350nm plus, family trips. Probably not hard core IFR (once I finish the rating), but there will be some IFR getting in and out.
 
Well, went and look at it this weekend. The search continues...
 
N2124v said:
Well, went and look at it this weekend. The search continues...
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Keep looking! Lots of good 182's out there in your price range.:D I bought my Q almost 2 years ago, 2350TT 350 on a factory reman, king digital radios, good paint, needed interior, I paid $63K. It would probably be less today.:redface: Of course, I then added a 430W, redid the interior and replaced the glass since I bought it. :mad2: The good news is the old Cessna autopilot works, most of the time.:D But you really don't need an autopilot in a 182, they are very stable.:D
 
N747JB said:
Keep looking! Lots of good 182's out there in your price range.:D I bought my Q almost 2 years ago, 2350TT 350 on a factory reman, king digital radios, good paint, needed interior, I paid $63K. It would probably be less today.:redface: Of course, I then added a 430W, redid the interior and replaced the glass since I bought it. :mad2: The good news is the old Cessna autopilot works, most of the time.:D But you really don't need an autopilot in a 182, they are very stable.:D
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When you guys want the real scoop on 182's their props, and upgrades, call Steve Knopp, at http://www.pponk.com/ he is probably the best source of 180/182/185 information in the US.

Our CFI's here not so much.
 
Does it count if you have one of his engines and prop match-ups on your plane?

Tom-D said:
When you guys want the real scoop on 182's their props, and upgrades, call Steve Knopp, at http://www.pponk.com/ he is probably the best source of 180/182/185 information in the US.

Our CFI's here not so much.
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