Cougar project

DOTSON has the aircraft, they buy aircraft from the insurance companies, Someone who knew what they were doing totaled the aircraft..an insurance company could not figure out how to repair the aircraft for less than it was worth..
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php
Click on Twins
Scroll down to 79 Cougar
What do you think it would take assuming the worst.
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A big pile of money and about a year. R&R two engines. 6-8k. Two O/H's w/new cranks 30-40k.Two new props 12-16k. Replace a lot of belly skins and engine cowl pieces 5-10k. Replace damaged gear parts 0-5k. Replace broken window 2k. Strip and paint 12k. Repair autopilot and other avionics as necessary 1-3k. Redo interior if necessary 0-10k. Also deal with any corrosion found during the repairs and possibly more new glass ???.

Totals: 66k - 106+k

That's the worst case. OTOH if you did the work yourself except for the engines, you might get by for half that.

FWIW, I've dealt with Dodson on much smaller issues and they seemed quite reputable.
 
I guess someone will buy it. I'd need to know what the resale value could be in order to see if it was worth it. Some of these are not worth rebuilding even if they donate the hull to you. Better to sell it on ebay or part it out but who has that kind of time?

Rebuilding with all new parts, higher-end engines and new props would only be worthwhile to someone who wanted it done perfectly; to keep themselves but may not be costeffective if reselling. Reworking the engines and buying used props (or finding used engines from a salvage yard!) can be a lot less $$ in the short term, but.....
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I guess someone will buy it. I'd need to know what the resale value could be in order to see if it was worth it. Some of these are not worth rebuilding even if they donate the hull to you. Better to sell it on ebay or part it out but who has that kind of time?
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Three on TAP today. $109-$129K asking price. The last one has been available for quite some time at roughly that price, so you have a hint at the upper limit.
 
NC19143 said:
DOTSON has the aircraft, they buy aircraft from the insurance companies, Someone who knew what they were doing totaled the aircraft..an insurance company could not figure out how to repair the aircraft for less than it was worth..
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While I agree with Tom in this particular case, you have to remember that the insurance company's financial calculations differ from the average rebuilder's financial calculations. The insurance company is on the line for the stated hull value less the hull salvage value. If the hull was insured to low or the salvage sale value is substantial, the insurance company is finanacially ahead to total it even if the hull salvage value plus the repair costs would not exceed the market value of the airframe.
 
Dave I owned a '78. The Cougars are very robust. Depending on how long this one was left out there to rot away and the amount of dammage the gear up did , will determind if it is worth it. I refurbished mine from nose to tail in the mid 90's. There are several Grumman specific places one could have the work done , if not doing it themselves. If you could get it for 15k less it would be a better deal.
 
Ron Levy said:
No -- the Cougar has a pair of 160 HP carbureted O-320-D1D's.
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Is there an STC to replace them with O-360's or IO-360's?
 
Anthony said:
Is there an STC to replace them with O-360's or IO-360's?
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Socata, who holds the Type Certificate had one flying with IO-360's. I would assume they still have this A/C, either here or in France.
 
Anthony said:
Is there an STC to replace them with O-360's or IO-360's?
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No. As noted by C-1Pilot, Socata briefly toyed with hanging 180HP O-360's on the "Tangara" version, but they were outvoted by the French government which insisted on using French engines, specifically, the Renault-Mornier SMA305 230HP turbodiesel. Unfortunately, this tall height, short length engine will not fit vertically in the long, low Cougar nacelle. About that point, Socata dropped the project, although they still own the TC, which Tiger Aircraft has a couple of times said they were going to buy, but haven't done more than talk about it. While the test bed plane did fly in France with O-360's under Experimental status, I'm pretty sure the O-360's were removed when Socata shifted their focus to the SMA305 engine, and further I know not. In any event, every Cougar currently certified has O-320-D1D's.
 
I won't comment on the airframe side of this project but the cost to do prop strike inspections on these engines is less than $6,000 each if nothing is damaged or worn out. As factory engines with those times on them they would be good candidates to repair and return to service. It would be unusual for the crankshafts to be damaged beyond repair. If they were new ones are available at around $4,000. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
 
zephyr said:
I won't comment on the airframe side of this project but the cost to do prop strike inspections on these engines is less than $6,000 each if nothing is damaged or worn out. As factory engines with those times on them they would be good candidates to repair and return to service. It would be unusual for the crankshafts to be damaged beyond repair.
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These are the result of a gear-up landing, which is a lot more than a simple "prop strike." Does that change your feeling?

In any event, Cougar props are unique, and hard to come by. You'll have to get Hartzell to run up a pair on special order, and that doesn't come quickly, especially if the hubs are busted.

All in all, you are looking at a lot of expensive work to put this plane back in shape. OTOH, if you want a nice, well-equipped Cougar at a fair price, mine is for sale via Hortman Aviation in Philadelphia. Call Herb at(215)969-5066.
 
Each prop strike, whether it be a gear up, or hitting the towbar is its own little science project. The propensity for damage to the crankshafts is often inversely proportional to the damage to the blades. In a strike with some power on and the blades perpendicular to the ground the blades roll up at the extremity and transmit less of the bending moment to the crankshaft. A gentle bend with little power and the angle oblique as caused by a noseover Is far more likely to damage the crank as the blade bends closer to it. I've been "involved" in well over a thousand of these in 33 years and found more "other" problems with crankshafts than damage due to prop strikes -particularly on Lycoming engines. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
 
NC19143 said:
DOTSON has the aircraft, they buy aircraft from the insurance companies, Someone who knew what they were doing totaled the aircraft..an insurance company could not figure out how to repair the aircraft for less than it was worth..
Click to expand...

Calculated using the most expensive parts and labor market calculations. If it hits 80%, it's less costly to pay as a total and sell off the salvage, sometimes they come out ahead, especially since if they commit to a repair, they are going to have to see the project through to completion. That means when the adjuster missed $25,000 in damage, they eat it, and you don't always know how totalled it is until you start taking it apart. Insurance actuaries and bean counters HATE uncertainty. They prefer to pay out what the actuaries have predetermined (and they are soooo shockingly close) they will pay out this year.

If you are carefull and knowledgeable, there is money to be made buying insurance company pool planes. My method is to bid what the avionics are worth. Worst case scenario I work pretty damn hard and only make a couple bucks basically recycling aluminum. Best case scenario, I work really damn hard and make a few bucks, and I have a plane to fly for a while. Four things are required, knowledge, skill, tools and someone to sign it off...oh yea, there's time and money as well. If you are or have a buddy who is an A&P with a shop and wants to go in with you on it and places no monetary value on their time, perfect.
 
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