Control tower in Echo Airspace

[azpilot]

Control tower in Echo / Golf Airspace

Take a look at KPCA on a sectional or skyvector. This is a towered helipad used for military training. It is class E airspace (edit to add - I know the tower is in Golf, but at 700' AGL and above, where we all fly, it's Echo). There is a special note that says, "CTC PCA TWR WITHIN 4 NM-BLO 2500 FT AGL". Field Elevation is 1,675', so the top of this tower's airspace is 4,175'.

Now, I know that in class delta airspace I have to make two way radio contact with the tower to enter the airspace. I've heard the controllers at KCHD say "Aircraft calling, standby" plenty of times when they don't want you to come into the airspace yet. Since they didn't use my tail number, we haven't established two way communication yet. But what are the airspace rules for a field like KPCA. It's technically in Echo Airspace (above 700' AGL), so per the airspace rules I don't have to talk to anyone to fly through that area, right?

When I fly in this area, I typically just climb up over their "airspace". I'll be flying right by here tomorrow, and this time I think I'll just give them a call on the radio about 10 miles out and see what happens.

 

[Brad Z]

Take a look at KPCA on a sectional or skyvector. This is a towered helipad used for military training. It is class E airspace. There is a special note that says, "CTC PCA TWR WITHIN 4 NM-BLO 2500 FT AGL". Field Elevation is 1,675', so the top of this tower's airspace is 4,175'.

Now, I know that in class delta airspace I have to make two way radio contact with the tower to enter the airspace. I've heard the controllers at KCHD say "Aircraft calling, standby" plenty of times when they don't want you to come into the airspace yet. Since they didn't use my tail number, we haven't established two way communication yet. But what are the airspace rules for a field like KPCA. It's technically in Echo Airspace (above 700' AGL), so per the airspace rules I don't have to talk to anyone to fly through that area, right?

When I fly in this area, I typically just climb up over their "airspace". I'll be flying right by here tomorrow, and this time I think I'll just give them a call on the radio about 10 miles out and see what happens.

14 CFR 91.126(d)

You must establish communications with the tower within 4nm below 2500ft AGL.

 

[JC150]

Why don't they put a 4nm dashed blue circle around KPCA? Just wondering.

 

[azpilot]

14 CFR 91.126(d)

You must establish communications with the tower within 4nm below 2500ft AGL.

I knew someone here would know the answer. Thanks for sharing. I'll report back tomorrow after the flight how it goes.

 

[alfadog]

Why don't they put a 4nm dashed blue circle around KPCA? Just wondering.

That would make it a class Delta. Class Delta must have weather reporting capabilities in addition to a control tower.

 

[Brad Z]

That would make it a class Delta. Class Delta must have weather reporting capabilities in addition to a control tower.

And more specially, an airspace change requires a rulemaking effort, with public comment and publication in a federal register. A control tower just requires a controller and an update to the aeronautical data (i.e. Charts, A/FD) or a notam.

 

[Brad Z]

I knew someone here would know the answer. Thanks for sharing. I'll report back tomorrow after the flight how it goes.

One correction nit to your title...the airport (well heliport) is in class G airspace. If it was in class e, there would be a dashed magenta circle around it.

 

[azpilot]

One correction nit to your title...the airport (well heliport) is in class G airspace. If it was in class e, there would be a dashed magenta circle around it.

Right, the tower is in Golf, but at 700' AGL the airspace transitions to Echo, right? I always get Golf and Echo mixed up.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that in the area that I'd be transitioning the airspace, I would be in Echo Airspace.

 

[JC150]

I didn't know you could have a controlled field and still be in class G airspace. Learning something new everyday. Honestly if I was flying VFR through that area I probably would've missed it

 

[MAKG1]

That would make it a class Delta. Class Delta must have weather reporting capabilities in addition to a control tower.

No, Class D does not require a tower. Most do have them, but not all. See KVUO.

Towers are about runways, not airspace.

 

[luvflyin]

I didn't know you could have a controlled field and still be in class G airspace. Learning something new everyday. Honestly if I was flying VFR through that area I probably would've missed it

The story on KPCA is that so many pilots were missing it they got got that contact the tower note added to the sectional. There are a few other towered airports out there in G, but that seems to be the only one with that note.

 

[luvflyin]

No, Class D does not require a tower. Most do have them, but not all. See KVUO.

Towers are about runways, not airspace.

The Class D at KVUO is going away soon. There is a Part 93 Special Air Traffic Rule that will replace it soon.

 

[roncachamp]

Take a look at KPCA on a sectional or skyvector. This is a towered helipad used for military training. It is class E airspace. There is a special note that says, "CTC PCA TWR WITHIN 4 NM-BLO 2500 FT AGL". Field Elevation is 1,675', so the top of this tower's airspace is 4,175'.

No, it is Class G airspace.

Now, I know that in class delta airspace I have to make two way radio contact with the tower to enter the airspace. I've heard the controllers at KCHD say "Aircraft calling, standby" plenty of times when they don't want you to come into the airspace yet. Since they didn't use my tail number, we haven't established two way communication yet. But what are the airspace rules for a field like KPCA. It's technically in Echo Airspace (above 700' AGL), so per the airspace rules I don't have to talk to anyone to fly through that area, right?

Wrong.

§91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(d) Communications with control towers. Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft to, from, through, or on an airport having an operational control tower unless two-way radio communications are maintained between that aircraft and the control tower. Communications must be established prior to 4 nautical miles from the airport, up to and including 2,500 feet AGL. However, if the aircraft radio fails in flight, the pilot in command may operate that aircraft and land if weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums, visual contact with the tower is maintained, and a clearance to land is received. If the aircraft radio fails while in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with §91.185.




The presence of a control tower does not require a surface area to be established. A surface area at a heliport is a detriment. When the weather goes below VFR minimums all operations would have to be under IFR or SVFR and separation provided by ATC. Since helicopter operations tend to be conducted below minimum IFR altitudes and often in less than three miles visibility a surface area has no benefit.

 

[roncachamp]

Why don't they put a 4nm dashed blue circle around KPCA? Just wondering.

Because that would indicate the presence of a Class D surface area where there is none.

 

[alfadog]

No, Class D does not require a tower. Most do have them, but not all. See KVUO.

Towers are about runways, not airspace.

I see no indication on a sectional that KVUO is a class Delta. To another, yes, of course, there are procedures to establish a class Delta but the basic requirement, per research done for a previous thread, is an operating control tower and surface weather reporting capability. But you are right, it's a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

 

[alfadog]

The story on KPCA is that so many pilots were missing it they got got that contact the tower note added to the sectional. There are a few other towered airports out there in G, but that seems to be the only one with that note.

Yes, that is interesting. As previously noted by Ronachamp, such contact is a requirement of the FARs but I imagine that many pilots were missing the control tower on the sectional and/or ignorant of the requirement.

 

[roncachamp]

I see no indication on a sectional that KVUO is a class Delta. To another, yes, of course, there are procedures to establish a class Delta but the basic requirement, per research done for a previous thread, is an operating control tower and surface weather reporting capability. But you are right, it's a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

The indication is there nonetheless. It's a bit easier to see in the inset.

 

[MAKG1]

I see no indication on a sectional that KVUO is a class Delta. To another, yes, of course, there are procedures to establish a class Delta but the basic requirement, per research done for a previous thread, is an operating control tower and surface weather reporting capability. But you are right, it's a necessary condition but not a sufficient condition.

The dashed blue line is hard to see because it abuts Portland's Class D. But it's there, complete with a note to contact Advisory prior to entering Class D.

You can also get airspace class in the AFD.

 

[alfadog]

The indication is there nonetheless. It's a bit easier to see in the inset.

Thanks, I see now there is a note on the sectional that I missed and also the little 11 in square blue brackets. Well, just another reminder to never say never, and never say always either.

 

[alfadog]

The dashed blue line is hard to see because it abuts Portland's Class D. But it's there, complete with a note to contact Advisory prior to entering Class D. It's easier to see in the TAC.

You can also get airspace class in the AFD.

Yeah, I miss that blue line too. I see it now if I zoom in. I was looking in the AF/D on the last thread we had on this subject and I didn't see where the airspace classification was called out on the sheet for an airport?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

intensive chopper training near one of the largest jump zones in the country....may the two never overlap.

 

[Sac Arrow]

14 CFR 91.126(d)

You must establish communications with the tower within 4nm below 2500ft AGL.

I know it's semantics, but I think you mean prior to 4nm up to 2500ft.

 

[Brad Z]

I know it's semantics, but I think you mean prior to 4nm up to 2500ft.

Yeah, I meant You must HAVE establishED communications IF YOU ARE within 4nm...

 

[azpilot]

Ok, so just for the record, I called up Picacho Tower on the way South to Marana today. I was about 10 miles out when I called them. I made the radio call, and..... crickets.....



There was no response for about 10 seconds. I double checked the radio. Yes, I had the right frequency. A few more seconds passed. I was getting ready to call again, when tower called me back. I kind of got the feeling they don't have much to do there. He let me know there was a sheriff helicopter in the area and asked me to let him know before I switched frequencies.

About seven or eight miles on the other side, I radioed him back and let him know I was switching frequencies. A new person radioed back with "frequency change approved, good day!"

That was it. Super easy.

 

[azure]

Yeah, I miss that blue line too. I see it now if I zoom in. I was looking in the AF/D on the last thread we had on this subject and I didn't see where the airspace classification was called out on the sheet for an airport?

Don't feel bad, I was about to post that the blue line was apparently left off to avoid clutter, but it is there at least part of the way around, coincident with the Class C boundary. That it's a Delta is a lot clearer on the low enroute chart, where the airspace is spelled out explicitly.