Commuter Plane Crashed in Creve Cour Lake near St. Louis

HighFlyingA380

HighFlyingA380

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
1,035
Location
St. Louis
Display Name
Display name:
Jim F.
Just happened a few minutes ago. Not much info yet. http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/344476/40/Plane-crashes-into-Creve-Coeur-Lake Creve Coeur Lake is about 1 mile from the airport (1H0). There's also many fields and highways very near it, so I'm not sure why the lake was chosen, unless they mistook it for a field, or the aircraft was essentially unable to control and fly elsewhere.

UPDATE 1: From my ex-boss at Spirit of St. Louis (KSUS). It was a PA-28 attempting to land at 1H0 inbound from Ohio on an IFR flight plan. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N55620

Update 2: It's been pulled out of the lake.
planecrash4445.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hope it turns out well for all involved....

Kinda small commuter :dunno::dunno:

:"
The plane had the ability to carry four people. Dive teams are conducting an underwater search. :"
 
DO you think it was a critical engine-out? I have done a lot of VFR engine out training in a PA44-180 and I have always thought how horrible it would be if this would happen on an IFR flight plan in IMC on approach...
 
Damn... never-mind, I originally read pa-44... man that sucks...
 
thezoolityre said:
DO you think it was a critical engine-out? I have done a lot of VFR engine out training in a PA44-180 and I have always thought how horrible it would be if this would happen on an IFR flight plan in IMC on approach...
Click to expand...
I'm finishing up my multi now, and I have dreams about that every night. Not sure yet, I'm getting the audio recording now to see if he declared and said what the problem was.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
I'm finishing up my multi now, and I have dreams about that every night. Not sure yet, I'm getting the audio recording now to see if he declared and said what the problem was.
Click to expand...

Alrighty bud, good luck with the info, just looked at flight aware... it looked like he was fluctuating between 76 and 63 knots all the way down... why would he do that? I am thinking it was not a controlled ascent, I think it was him establishing LD/max in IMC and just had trouble keeping it constant do him... well... being in IMC with in engine out! I fly a pa28-161 as well and L/Dmax is 73, and the PA28R-201 I fly as well is 79 L/Dmax, so I am thinking he wad in that ballpark for that reason....
 
thezoolityre said:
Alrighty bud, good luck with the info, just looked at flight aware... it looked like he was fluctuating between 76 and 63 knots all the way down... why would he do that? I am thinking it was not a controlled ascent, I think it was him establishing LD/max in IMC and just had trouble keeping it constant do him... well... being in IMC with in engine out! I fly a pa28-161 as well and L/Dmax is 73, and the PA28R-201 I fly as well is 79 L/Dmax, so I am thinking he wad in that ballpark for that reason....
Click to expand...
Not sure he was in IMC. KSTL right now is reporting 13SM BKN250. Seems like some pretty good WX. My folks live near there said WX has been great all night.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Not sure he was in IMC. KSTL right now is reporting 13SM BKN250. Seems like some pretty good WX. My folks live near there said WX has been great all night.
Click to expand...

Ya you are right, and I looked at the majority of the rest of the flight and it looks like he was only traveling at max 81 ground speed in cruise... so... who knows, also the last 4 knt indications on flight aware were right at approach and final approach speed of the aircraft... I am beginning to rule the engine out theory myself...
 
thezoolityre said:
Ya you are right, and I looked at the majority of the rest of the flight and it looks like he was only traveling at max 81 ground speed in cruise... so... who knows, also the last 4 knt indications on flight aware were right at approach and final approach speed of the aircraft... I am beginning to rule the engine out theory myself...
Click to expand...
Witness did say they heard some engine rough a bit east of the crash site, and they came to the scene after rescuers. Of course, that's what all witnesses say, so take it for what it is.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Witness did say they heard some engine rough a bit east of the crash site, and they came to the scene after rescuers. Of course, that's what all witnesses say, so take it for what it is.
Click to expand...

Lol, Ya EVERY witness is an expert in aviation when something like this happens
 
thezoolityre said:
Lol, Ya EVERY witness is an expert in aviation when something like this happens
Click to expand...
Yeah. From what crash investigators (in particular, Greg Feith) said at a presentation I attended, was that pilots were probably the worst witnesses, and small children were the best. Apparently we have a tenancy to already "know" in our minds what "actually" happened.
 
Last edited:
Article says two people removed from plane in critical condition. Hopefully they are survivable injuries.
 
UPDATE 2: The pilot and registered owner, Russell Hazelton of Factoryville, Pennsylvania, had died.

According to another witness, the plane circled the lake prior to landing, to attempt to line up on the bank. Seems to me, if you have time to circle the lake, you'd have time to make it the 1 mile to the airport; It's definitely not that small of a lake.. But of course, I wasn't there.

Here's a link to some more pictures. The aircraft is tied to a police car to prevent it from floating back out: http://www.ksdk.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=344490
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
UPDATE 2: The pilot and registered owner, Russell Hazelton of Factoryville, Pennsylvania, had died.

According to another witness, the plane circled the lake prior to landing, to attempt to line up on the bank. Seems to me, if you have time to circle the lake, you'd have time to make it the 1 mile to the airport; It's definitely not that small of a lake.. But of course, I wasn't there.

Here's a link to some more pictures. The aircraft is tied to a police car to prevent it from floating back out: http://www.ksdk.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=344490
Click to expand...

That is sad.... And a strange story too..:confused:
 
N801BH said:
That is sad.... And a strange story too..:confused:
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. Sadly, there will probable always be some questions left since the pilot is no longer with us. Hopefully, the pax was also a pilot, and will make it and be able to shed some light into the thoughts and actions leading to this.
 
What about fuel starvation? He had been airborne between 2.5 and 3 hours, which is about the time available on one tank in a PA-28. What if he forgot to switch tanks and ran dry just as he was approaching to land?

All speculation, of course.

No IMC there last night...

A Google search found a reference to him being a retired TWA captain, 78 years old. Sad.

I fly out of that airport, so it hits pretty close to home.

:(
 
bcool said:
What about fuel starvation? He had been airborne between 2.5 and 3 hours, which is about the time available on one tank in a PA-28. What if he forgot to switch tanks and ran dry just as he was approaching to land?

All speculation, of course.

No IMC there last night...

A Google search found a reference to him being a retired TWA captain, 78 years old. Sad.

I fly out of that airport, so it hits pretty close to home.

:(
Click to expand...
Good point on the 1-tank fuel starvation. Looks like PA-28s have two 25 gallon tanks. Not sure on fuel burn, but I have to assume its pretty close to the 8 or so GPH of most GA planes. And they did say a hazmat team was called to contain the fuel spill, so that's definitely a possibility.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Good point on the 1-tank fuel starvation. Looks like PA-28s have two 25 gallon tanks. Not sure on fuel burn, but I have to assume its pretty close to the 8 or so GPH of most GA planes. And they did say a hazmat team was called to contain the fuel spill, so that's definitely a possibility.
Click to expand...

Yep. PA-28-181 is my trainer. Burns around 8 per the POM, and we use 10gal/hr to be conservative. To the tabs is 17gal per wing...
 
UPDATE 3: The only other pax was 78-year old Russell Hazeltons' wife, 69-year old Suzanne Hazelton. She is still in critical condition and on life support.
 

Attachments

  • 508999314c9c3.preview-620.jpg
    508999314c9c3.preview-620.jpg
    76.8 KB · Views: 52
  • 5089992e916e2.preview-620.jpg
    5089992e916e2.preview-620.jpg
    51.4 KB · Views: 50
N801BH said:
Anyone find the audio yet ????..
Click to expand...
Negative. I have the audio condensed down to under a minute as he traversed the STL Bravo airspace via the Cardinal VOR (CSX). I'm currently listening to STL approach and SUS twr. to see if there are any comms. between the police helicoptor that responded. Most likely won't post anything since there's none of his comms relating to the crash.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
UPDATE 2: The pilot and registered owner, Russell Hazelton of Factoryville, Pennsylvania, had died.

According to another witness, the plane circled the lake prior to landing, to attempt to line up on the bank. Seems to me, if you have time to circle the lake, you'd have time to make it the 1 mile to the airport; It's definitely not that small of a lake.. But of course, I wasn't there.

Here's a link to some more pictures. The aircraft is tied to a police car to prevent it from floating back out: http://www.ksdk.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=344490
Click to expand...

No, not that small, we used to drag race boats on it and skate on it in the winter.
 
Henning said:
No, not that small, we used to drag race boats on it and skate on it in the winter.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it still shocks me that they do jet-boat racing at over 200mph on that lake. Sure, it's not small, but I still can't believe it's big enough for that.
 
Thanks for the update. Always sad when other members in our family die. Unless there's some mechanical issues which can be identified as being prior to the crash, it's highly unlikely we'll get any answers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top