Commercial vs ATP

J

JasonM

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,837
Location
West Virginia
Display Name
Display name:
JM
I am thinking of getting my commercial rating but was wondering what it will allow me to do. How does it compare to ATP? I realize an ATP is well beyond, but don't understand what you get to do with Commercial vs ATP.
 
Commercial lets you get paid for flying. ATP adds the privilege of flying a 121 airliner. (with appropriate type rating, of course.)
 
Example of some questions I had.

Lets say you could afford (I can't) a caravan and wanted to fly people around as a small charter company. Could you do that with a Commercial?

Lets say a company is looking to hire a pilot for minimum wage :) to fly their employees around the country. Could you do that with a Commercial?
 
JasonM said:
Example of some questions I had.

Lets say you could afford (I can't) a caravan and wanted to fly people around as a small charter company. Could you do that with a Commercial?

Lets say a company is looking to hire a pilot for minimum wage :) to fly their employees around the country. Could you do that with a Commercial?
Click to expand...

Yes (and a 135 cert) and yes
 
It's just for 121 stuff per the FAA.

It's nearly a requirement for most all high paying flying jobs too though, even if ATPs aren't legally required, much like how some non aviation jobs ask for a University degree vs. a high school diploma.
 
James331 said:
It's nearly a requirement for most all high paying flying jobs too though, even if ATPs aren't legally required, much like how some non aviation jobs ask for a University degree vs. a high school diploma.
Click to expand...

I believe (can't say for 100%) that anything that requires a type rating also requires flying to ATP standards anyway.
 
In turbine aircraft to fly as the captain ,on charters ,with pax aboard , you have to hold an ATP rating.
 
re. flying to ATP standards, what would you say is the single biggest difference, as compared to checkride standards for commercial and instrument rated?
 
NoHeat said:
re. flying to ATP standards, what would you say is the single biggest difference, as compared to checkride standards for commercial and instrument rated?
Click to expand...

Time required before you can take the test.
 
frfly172 said:
In turbine aircraft to fly as the captain ,on charters ,with pax aboard , you have to hold an ATP rating.
Click to expand...

Greg Bockelman said:
That would be a 135 type operation. Do you happen to have a reference for that?
Click to expand...

135.243 Pilot in command qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—

(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That would be a 135 type operation. Do you happen to have a reference for that?
Click to expand...

AC 61-138

Ops requiring an ATP:

Part 121 operations - Both PIC and SIC

Part 135 that require the PIC to have an ATP:
  • Scheduled commuter ops in a multi-engine airplane with 9 or less seats
  • On-demand ops in a multi-engine with 10 or more seats
  • Turbojet operations

Part 91K(fractional) - PIC of a multi-engine turbine fixed wing
 
frfly172 said:
Time required before you can take the test.
Click to expand...

Well, I meant when you're in the cockpit. For example, greater precision when flying an ILS by hand. What along those lines is the single biggest difference, for flying to ATP standards.
 
frfly172 said:
In turbine aircraft to fly as the captain ,on charters ,with pax aboard , you have to hold an ATP rating.
Click to expand...

So a cessna caravan with its turboprop engine, you would not be allowed to fly people for hire?



Gucci Pilot said:
Part 135 that require the PIC to have an ATP:
  • Scheduled commuter ops in a multi-engine airplane with 9 or less seats
  • On-demand ops in a multi-engine with 10 or more seats
  • Turbojet operations
Click to expand...

How many passengers can you fly in a single engine with a commercial?
 
NoHeat said:
Well, I meant when you're in the cockpit. For example, greater precision when flying an ILS by hand. What along those lines is the single biggest difference, for flying to ATP standards.
Click to expand...

The ATP incorporates instrument stuff as well. On the ATP, you have to do steep turns, stalls, unusual attitudes, and an engine-out. Those are about the only VFR type maneuvers you have to do.

On the commercial it is all VFR stuff. 180 accuracy landing, 8s on pylons, lazy eights, chandelles, etc.
 
JM, if you were thinking of starting a charter operation (of any size), getting the commercial certificate is the easy part. The part will be getting your 135 certificate.
 
coma24 said:
JM, if you were thinking of starting a charter operation (of any size), getting the commercial certificate is the easy part. The part will be getting your 135 certificate.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Doing something like this in a larger airplane would likely never happen, but I was interested to know what the commercial cert. would allow me to do. I will check into the 135 cert. Am I correct to assume I would need that even if I was hauling a few people in a 182 or 206 for short charter flights?
 
On the helo side the ATP is required for some of the larger aircraft (S-76/S-92) while the little guys (B206/B407) just require a commercial cert. Even for the lesser commercial cert requirements an ATP will make you more competitive in getting hired. All other things being equal, the ATP guy will be cheaper on insurance than the commercial one. Companies like saving money on unsurance premiums. I believe some companies will pay you extra as well if you get your ATP while serving in a commercial cert position.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Several 135 ops require it as well.
Click to expand...

True.

§ 135.243 Pilot in command qualifications.

(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—

(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.
Click to expand...
 
JasonM said:
How many passengers can you fly in a single engine with a commercial?
Click to expand...

I guess as many as it will hold. My guess is a Caravan or AN-2 are gonna be your biggest options for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top