Color Vision Alternate Test

[cocolos]

I know this has been asked before but I cannot seem to find the thread. I finally got a letter from FAA saying I need to either take alt. color vision test or the test at the FSDO office. I am going to start with alternate first, but I cannot seem to find an eye specialist that can do most of the following: Farnsworth Lantern, Keystone Orthoscope, Kestone Telebinocular, LKC Technologies, Inc., OPTEC 2000 Tester(model nos. 2000PM, 2000PAME, or 2000PI), OPTEC 900, Titmus Vision Tester, Titmust II Vision Tester (model nos. TII and TIIS), and Titmus 2Vision Tester(model nos. T2A and T2S).

Therefore would people know which is the more common one that people have an easier time with? Thanks

 

[poadeleted20]

Why not do the light gun test with the FAA FSDO folks? Get your instructor to go to a towered airport with you to practice so you know you'll pass, and then get 'er done.

 

[cocolos]

I guess I am just scared of the light gun test. I don't like the idea that if I fail I am pretty much done for.

 

[RJM62]

I guess I am just scared of the light gun test. I don't like the idea that if I fail I am pretty much done for.

So don't schedule the test with FSDO until you're sure that you're going to pass.

Make arrangements with a controller at your friendly Class D to have him or her shoot light signals at you on a slow day. Take your CFI (or anyone, really, who can tell the colors apart) to help you, and then practice until you can tell the colors apart, too. Then call the FSDO, once you know you're going to pass.

-Rich

 

[cocolos]

Isn't there a part where you have to read colors out of a sectional as well?

 

[RJM62]

Isn't there a part where you have to read colors out of a sectional as well?

That I'm afraid I don't know.

-Rich

 

[flyingron]

The sectional is easy because there are always other cues than the color that will tell you what a symbol is. For example, the presence of a control tower frequency in the airport data block will tell you the airport is blue not red. Similarly, it's not hard based on the shape to tell a class B from a class C, etc...

During slack times, most tower controllers will be quite happy to shoot you a few light signals. We have them do so for student pilots all the time.

 

[poadeleted20]

I guess I am just scared of the light gun test. I don't like the idea that if I fail I am pretty much done for.

That's why you go out to the airport with your instructor and see if you can pass it before you schedule it with the FAA. And if you can't, do you really think it's safe for you to be flying where being able to tell a red light from a green light from a white light is required even if you pass one of the alternate doctor's office tests?

 

[poadeleted20]

Isn't there a part where you have to read colors out of a sectional as well?

Yes, there is, but again, this is something you and your instructor should go over carefully to make sure you can pass it before going to the FAA for the OCVT. Here's what that portion of the Operational Color Vision Test requires:

The ability to read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aeronautical charts, including print in various sizes, colors, and typefaces; conventional markings in several colors; and terrain colors. Aeronautical chart reading may be performed under any light condition where the chart will normally be read. The ASI or AST must provide the aeronautical chart.

And again, if you can't do that, do you really think you're safe to be flying, not to mention being able to pass a Sport/Rec/Private practical test which requires you to be able to read and interpret a sectional chart?

 

[bbchien]

You need to buck up, and stop being scared, and study up for the OCVT. Or you will be seeking the impossible to find alternate test for the rest of your flying days.

I have a now 23 y.o ATP who passed his OCVT at age 19 due to no end of study, encouragement, and flight (simulating the real class 1 OCVT). He never has to worry again.

IF you're going to forever scared, you need to reconsider you vocation/avocation.

 

[cocolos]

Bruce, how much time did he need to prepare for it?

 

[X3 Skier]

If one passes the OVCT, does one's color vision ever get checked again? I know if you flunk it, no more testing and permanent restriction.

I think the answer is no since it would be dumb to take an OVCT every 6 months, 2 or 4 years or whatever cycle one is on after every failed color test. OTOH, it is the FAA a logic may or may not apply.

I assume one gets a paper or something to show the AME to prevent this "do over" every physical.

BTW, how does one "practice" the light gun test if one is having difficulty distinguishing green from white or whatever? Since the flashes are random, it's not like deducing magenta from blue on a sectional where there are other clues.

Cheers

 

[bbchien]

Bruce, how much time did he need to prepare for it?

We spent about eight hours over four weeks.

The way you prepare for it is to be drilled by someone with relatively normal color vision who understands the process. We spent about 20 minutes in front of the light guns at KPIA and in front of KSPI. That person needs be a CFI so that the tower will co-operate and has to undertand the impact of the lighting on the sectional, which will occur in teh inappropriately red-deficient environment of a Federal Conference room lighted by fluroescents.

I will say, that most of the guys, if they fail, fail on the legend to the sectional. You HAVE to memorize that, too. Colors of the MALSR, too- or whatever the FSDO's home airport facility's got.

Remember, "color vision approrpiate for airman duties" is all you need demonstrate. No matter what you seen, when you see the magenta dashed circle around the "E to surface part of the day" airport, you say "magenta" even though you have no idea what magenta really is.

 

[poadeleted20]

If one passes the OVCT, does one's color vision ever get checked again?

No. SMFT's result in a lifetime waiver unless they get some reason to believe your vision has changed, and that would not come from a regular aviation medical exam.

I assume one gets a paper or something to show the AME to prevent this "do over" every physical.

You get a Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA).

BTW, how does one "practice" the light gun test if one is having difficulty distinguishing green from white or whatever? Since the flashes are random, it's not like deducing magenta from blue on a sectional where there are other clues.

If you really can't tell green from white from red lights, you don't pass, and from a safety perspective, you really shouldn't be flying at night anyway -- think PAPI and VASI and "is that plane coming or going?"

 

[X3 Skier]

If you really can't tell green from white from red lights, you don't pass, and from a safety perspective, you really shouldn't be flying at night anyway -- think PAPI and VASI and "is that plane coming or going?"

That's what I think as well but I keep reading in various threads including this one, one can practice for the light gun test. If you flunk the book of dots, how much practice can you do at a tower since they are random flashes? If you can see and differentiate the lights from the tower, what's to practice? It's the Practice with a light gun I fail to understand.

Is it because there are degrees of color deficiency and with a mild case and lots of reps, one can eventually tell a difference and can associate that difference with the helper telling you what looks like a pale green/ blue close to white to you is actually a stunning green or what looks like a pale pink close to white to you is really a stunning red?

If that's the reason for practice it makes sense, otherwise, I am lost.

Cheers

 

[bbchien]

That's what I think as well but I keep reading in various threads including this one, one can practice for the light gun test. If you flunk the book of dots, how much practice can you do at a tower since they are random flashes? If you can see and differentiate the lights from the tower, what's to practice? It's the Practice with a light gun I fail to understand.

Is it because there are degrees of color deficiency and with a mild case and lots of reps, one can eventually tell a difference and can associate that difference with the helper telling you what looks like a pale green/ blue close to white to you is actually a stunning green or what looks like a pale pink close to white to you is really a stunning red?

If that's the reason for practice it makes sense, otherwise, I am lost.

Cheers

Most red green deuteranopes see the green as a smudgy white. If you can get the association between the smudgy white and the green, vs the BRIGHT white is the white, then you can recognize that association when you have to, as well.

On the sectional, there are are many hints that the purply-appearing dashed line around the class D or E to the ground airport is class E to the ground at times (it's called the legend). So if you find it in the legend, you can identify it as maroon. Have you looked at the legend recently?

This is called "perception adequate for airman duties'.

 

[X3 Skier]

Most red green deuteranopes see the green as a smudgy white. If you can get the association between the smudgy white and the green, vs the BRIGHT white is the white, then you can recognized that when you have to, as well.

On the sectional, thereare are many hints that the purply-appearing dashed line around the class D or E to the ground airport is class E to the ground at times (it's called the legend). So if you find it in the legend, you can identify it as maroon.

This is called "perception adequate for airman duties'.

Thanks, understood the second part since there are lots of other clues as you note and your explanation of the first is "clear", pun intended.

Cheers

 

[poadeleted20]

That's what I think as well but I keep reading in various threads including this one, one can practice for the light gun test. If you flunk the book of dots, how much practice can you do at a tower since they are random flashes? If you can see and differentiate the lights from the tower, what's to practice? It's the Practice with a light gun I fail to understand.

Not everyone sees colors the same way. If you can distinguish between the various light signals, it doesn't matter what color you see as long as you can tell which means what. That may or may not correlate with the dots test, and the fact that a lot of people who can't pass the dots test can pass the operational test tells us that the light gun test is the one which, from a safety perspective, really counts.

 

[Jeff0901]

Bruce, how much time did he need to prepare for it?

Cocolos, I realize this is a really old thread but was just curious if you ever did pursue the color test or if you are still restricted?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[James331]

I guess I am just scared of the light gun test. I don't like the idea that if I fail I am pretty much done for.

That.

I would never do that, risk to reward it makes zero sense.

 

[bbchien]

That.

I would never do that, risk to reward it makes zero sense.

That makes zero sense. Drill it with your CFI until you are sure you can tell.
So, then you know.

James may never do that but you might have better sense. But if you're not going to do the drill, don't bother. You gotta do the homework, first.

See thread by CLPSO-34

 

[James331]

Seeing I don't have a MD after my name to make money off physicals, if I loose my night and IFR ability that's food off my table, so yeah no way on earth I'd risk that, or recommend any person who uses their cert to put food on the table risk it.

 

[bbchien]

Seeing I don't have a MD after my name to make money off physicals....

A-H incarnate.......now I am reminded as to why I left. Maybe see you boys again in a year or so....

James of course knows so very veryyy much never having been through the waiver process.....(hint, ya think I have a waiver.......).. You have of course to know the outcome of the waiver before you even start, silly.

 

[James331]

A-H incarnate.......now I am reminded as to why I left. Maybe see you boys again in a year or so....

James of course knows so very veryyy much never having been through the waiver process.....(hint, ya think I have a waiver.......).. You have of course to know the outcome of the waiver before you even start, silly.

Don't be so damn sensitive doc. I simply stated, very factually, that people who rely on flying to make a living are taking a risk, taking a alternate test every year is a slight pain in the but BFD, but if you somehow fail that FAA test you're perma F'ed
The whole point is you DONT know outcomes, one will never have a crystal ball when it comes to things, mitigate risk.

 

[lbfjrmd]

A-H incarnate.......now I am reminded as to why I left. Maybe see you boys again in a year or so....

lol! i will see you in DENVER!