Cloud Nine

[AuntPeggy]

Today, as I gazed out the window noting that the cumulus clouds that characterized the noontime sky had been replaced by a light coating of cirrus. A lunchroom compatriot informed me that the phrase "cloud 9" was a reference to the US weather bureau classification of clouds, where the highest, and therefore, the greatest was 9. cumulunimbus. Outwardly, I was duly impressed, but inwardly wondered that there were only 9 cloud types and the most desirable would be the one characterized by thunderstorms and destruction. So, I looked it up. This reference and many others pretty much leave the question unanswered, except for the sites that simply state as fact, without any reference, one theory or another. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-clo1.htm

I think there are some very cloud-knowledgeable people here. So, is there any truth to this rumor?

 

[ScottM]

[SIZE=+2]Cloud Nine[/SIZE]

• On cloud nine (a euphoric state). The phrase appears to be American. Originating from the U.S. Weather Bureau's rating of clouds. A cumulonimbus cloud is rated 9 often reaching 40,000 feet. In the 1950s a popular radio show "Johnny Dollar" in a recurring episode the hero was knocked unconscious and awoke on cloud nine.

Source: Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, Nigel Rees

What I would like to find is a NWS page taking credit for it. Seems that all of the stories are in agreement, but that could jsut mean that they are all feeding off of the same story.

 

[AuntPeggy]

[SIZE=+2]Cloud Nine[/SIZE]

• On cloud nine (a euphoric state). The phrase appears to be American. Originating from the U.S. Weather Bureau's rating of clouds. A cumulonimbus cloud is rated 9 often reaching 40,000 feet. In the 1950s a popular radio show "Johnny Dollar" in a recurring episode the hero was knocked unconscious and awoke on cloud nine.

Source: Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, Nigel Rees

What I would like to find is a NWS page taking credit for it. Seems that all of the stories are in agreement, but that could jsut mean that they are all feeding off of the same story.

Me, too. One would think that the 1950s are not so long ago that the Weather Bureau would have forgotten about numbering clouds.
I saw a lot like yours with no authoritative source reference. Then, there were others like this:

Whenever a phrase includes a number, like the whole nine yards, at sixes and sevens etc., then attempts to find its derivation usually focus on the number. 'On cloud nine' is no exception. A commonly heard explanation is that the expression originated as one of the classifications of cloud which were defined by the US Weather Bureau in the 1950s, in which 'Cloud Nine' denotes the fluffy cumulonimbus type that are considered so attractive. Another explanation is that the phrase derives from Buddhism and that Cloud Nine is one of the stages of the progress to enlightenment of a Bodhisattva (one destined to become a Buddha).

Neither of these explanations holds water. To begin with, both the cloud classifications and the Buddhist stages to enlightenment have ten levels. To single out the last but one stage of either is rather like attributing the source of the 'whole nine yards' to American Football, where it is ten yards rather than nine that is a significant measure. Also, the fact that nine is far from the only number that has been linked with clouds, argues against those origins. Early examples of 'cloud' expressions include clouds seven, eight, nine and even thirty-nine.

And if there are 10 classifications of clouds, what are they?

 

[Trapper John]

To single out the last but one stage of either is rather like attributing the source of the 'whole nine yards' to American Football, where it is ten yards rather than nine that is a significant measure...

The origin of the phrase, "whole nine yards" is a reference to the length of 50 caliber ammunition belts in WWII fighters...

And if there are 10 classifications of clouds, what are they?

I've got some old military flight training materials from the early 1950s. I'll see if I can find anything.


Trapper John

 

[AuntPeggy]

The origin of the phrase, "whole nine yards" is a reference to the length of 50 caliber ammunition belts in WWII fighters...



I've got some old military flight training materials from the early 1950s. I'll see if I can find anything.


Trapper John

I've always been convinced that 'the whole nine yards' refers to the capacity of a cement truck. However, a quick foray into the internet comes up with these:
Nautical - The horizontal poles used to hold up sails on a square-rigged ship, or the surface area of canvas sails
Coal - The capacity of coal delivery trucks in England
Garments - Using all the fabric required for a finely tailored three-piece suit, the amount of fabric required for a voluminous veil, Colonia dress, all bolts of fabric.
Military - The 9 tribes of Montagnards of South Vietnam, running 9 yards in 3 seconds before diving to the ground to avoid sniper fire, length of ammunition belts, length of bomb racks
Mediaeval - test requiring victim to walk nine paces over hot coals.
Classical - significance of nine as in dressed to the nines, nine muses, etc.
Burial - the amount of dirt in a burial plot, the fabric in a burial shroud, length of a hangman's noose

Since the phrase seems to have been coined in the mid-1960s, Mediaval, sailing, WWII, and Korean war origins are quite questionable. Since fabric bolts are much longer than 9 yards and military ammunition is measured by weight or rounds, and we don't refer to classical literature very much, my guess is that the phrase does not refer to anything at all. In fact, it probably doesn't really exist.