Cloud avoidance

[flyersfan31]

So, somewhat of a lazy question here. When you want to deviate around a cloud (in winter, in a Sundowner, flying IFR), what discretion do you have? I assume, when routed on a Victor, you can maneuver freely within the 4 mi boundary. What about when cloud avoidance (that is, ice avoidance) might take you off the airway, or off your direct routing? Tell ATC you need to maneuver to avoid ice? Request a heading? What do you do?

Thus far I've stuck to VFR flight in winter weather, given the limited ice avoidance options in the Sundowner (descend, return, abort).

 

[Fast n' Furious]

You're expected to fly the airway center line as best as you can define it. If you want to do something else....ask your controller. If you need to do something else tell your controller.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So, somewhat of a lazy question here. When you want to deviate around a cloud (in winter, in a Sundowner, flying IFR), what discretion do you have?

Whatever the controller gives you!

I assume, when routed on a Victor, you can maneuver freely within the 4 mi boundary.

No.

Exercise: Next time you're on an airway IFR, turn 90 degrees in either direction. Guarantee you won't make it 4 miles before you get yelled at.

Oh, and yes, I'd be happy to fly your plane while you're serving your 120-day grounding.

It goes like this:

"Center, Slowdowner 12345, request 20 degrees right for weather."
"12345, proceed as requested, direct Podunk when able."

If you don't want to go through clouds in the winter (or ever)... Don't go IFR, IMHO. Also, BTW, there are many instances even in winter where there's not ice in the clouds. Keep an eye on AIRMETs, PIREPs, winds/temps aloft, and icing forecasts. What you see may surprise you. (It may also confuse you sometimes, I know it does me!)

 

[SCCutler]

Dealt with this plenty of times, except summertime in the south while avoiding big, puffy, bumpy cumulus tops; a simple "Request deviations to stay out of the tops" is typically answered with "Deviation approved."

'Course, what I really need to do is get my wife to understand what I mean when I tell her: "Summertime in the south, we launch early to arrive early."

 

[grattonja]

'Course, what I really need to do is get my wife to understand what I mean when I tell her: "Summertime in the south, we launch early to arrive early."

LOL! Having a co-pilot wife definitely helps. She KNOWS what it means to get out early, before it gets bumpy, boomy and nasty.

Funny, I've done more summer deviating than winter deviating. For the same reason as you.

Jim G

 

[flyersfan31]

Exercise: Next time you're on an airway IFR, turn 90 degrees in either direction. Guarantee you won't make it 4 miles before you get yelled at.

Yup, that's what I suspected. Actually, if they're nice they do the gentle "Sundowner, confirm your current heading is xyz." If they aren't nice, then you get your ears scalded "Sundowner you dumb (*$%&*%^ fly where I pointed you NOW!"

I've watched some of those Dick Collins videos, where he weaves around the clouds at FL19 in his turbo/pressurized Centurion, but you never hear the request to deviate. Ergo my question.

I subscribe to the VFR-only-in-winter-school right now. I'm just busy gathering information and advice for the day when I do launch IFR in winter.

 

[AdamZ]

Thanks for asking it Andrew. We were considering the same question for our scrubbed Angel Flight yesterday. Clear as a bell but enough white puffys we'd be bound to slice thru on on the way up to KBOS and the freezing level was probably -20 AGL it was so cold.

 

[poadeleted20]

You're expected to fly the airway center line as best as you can define it. If you want to do something else....ask your controller. If you need to do something else tell your controller.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks for asking it Andrew. We were considering the same question for our scrubbed Angel Flight yesterday. Clear as a bell but enough white puffys we'd be bound to slice thru on on the way up to KBOS and the freezing level was probably -20 AGL it was so cold.

How cold? When it gets really REALLY cold, everything's solid already and you most likely won't ice up in the clouds unless the airframe is warm.

It seems like the worst months for ice are March and April around here. I've actually gotten a good chunk of my actual IMC in December.

 

[N7702Y]

At least in this ice prone part of the world (Pacific Northwest) most controllers are sensitized to IFR airplanes avoiding potentially icy clouds, and that includes turbine equipment. Horizon Airlines flys Dash-8s all over this region, and the controllers are constantly helping them stay clear of the clag.

My experience is that if you tell the controllers what you want to do, they'll be very accommodating. If you say "Nxxxx needs to deviate 20 degrees right of course to avoid potential icing conditions", they'll say "deviate as required, report back on course". The important thing is to be very clear in your communication, as noted above.

Jay