Class 3 medical renewall, what if I can't remember all my visits?

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poorrecordkeeper

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So in hindsight I probably should have been keeping a log of every trip to the dr over the past 5 years but I didn't...

There shouldn't be anything disqualifying- some physicals, a number of dermatologist visits for rosacea, couple of antibiotic prescriptions, and a couple of eye exams that I did get glasses at(very mild prescription, I'll easily pass the FAA test without them).

I've been through 3 or 4 different health insurance plans and moved across the country/switched doctors in this period too... so pulling records may be a giant pain.

Would I probably be fine to just put the visits I remember and best guess on the dates on the form?
 
crazy Christmas wish:

May the electronic FAA medical application form 8500-8 actually remembers what you wrote last year!
That's what computers are Awesome at, remembering this chit!! Let them do their thing, pleasepleaseplease!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
crazy Christmas wish:

May the electronic FAA medical application form 8500-8 actually remembers what you wrote last year!
That's what computers are Awesome at, remembering this chit!! Let them do their thing, pleasepleaseplease!
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

It remembers your name and other demographic info. I don't see why it can't remember your doctor's visits.
 
It seemed to have more info saved this year than in years past, but I can't quantify that very well, since I just throw a copy of the printout anytime I use it into a file folder in the cabinet that gets a piece of paper every time I do anything "medical" just for the purpose of feeding the FAA whatever they want each time.

Being a tech geek I should probably digitize that crap and put it in my usual places, but I'm somewhat impressed at how well that old thing called a "filing cabinet" works for a lot less time invested. :)

But it seemed to me that I mostly just clicked through most of the pages and they were pre-filled out other than adding new stuff. Even has the PRNC fields in various places already populated.
 
What I do is go to my PCP and have them print out my visit history. Even if I go to a specialist, I'd have started with them for a referral. That's usually enough to jog my mind.
 
poorrecordkeeper said:
So in hindsight I probably should have been keeping a log of every trip to the dr over the past 5 years but I didn't...

There shouldn't be anything disqualifying- some physicals, a number of dermatologist visits for rosacea, couple of antibiotic prescriptions, and a couple of eye exams that I did get glasses at(very mild prescription, I'll easily pass the FAA test without them).

I've been through 3 or 4 different health insurance plans and moved across the country/switched doctors in this period too... so pulling records may be a giant pain.

Would I probably be fine to just put the visits I remember and best guess on the dates on the form?
Click to expand...
Not sure if it makes it any easier but the form should be asking for visits to health professionals in the last 3 years.

The important thing is that you don't intentionally omit anything--particularly if it was treatment for a disqualifying condition.
 
Once electronic medical records are used by your doctors, that problem becomes trivial. Not that there aren't other problems, like mandatory reporting of certain medical items to your state (in our state, all immunizations must be reported) and access by the FAA directly.
 
Brad Z said:
Not sure if it makes it any easier but the form should be asking for visits to health professionals in the last 3 years.

The important thing is that you don't intentionally omit anything--particularly if it was treatment for a disqualifying condition.
Click to expand...

Anyone else catch that disconnect? I noticed it as a systems engineer...

The MedXpress asks for three years, and there's medicals that last longer than 3 years now, for those under 40.

I saw it and just chuckled. This was my first "over 40" medical this time around and I realized I could have had a medical visit the year I got it, and it wouldn't be reportable on MedXpress, and I wouldn't be lying on the form.

Just an example of people building systems who don't pay attention to the details that need to change when they change something in the system.

This is the exact same problem that makes modern software suck so bad. Nobody tracks the big picture constraints, two separate engineers working on two separate areas who never communicate but each build in a different set of conflicting constraints.

Entertaining to see it everywhere once you've had a job role for a couple decades that requires you see them daily and work to bonk the two over the head that they broke the overall system by not paying attention to the overall "business rules".

Often caused by not having good documentation of those rules in software but in FAA's case, on this one, that's obviously not a problem.
 
wsuffa said:
Once electronic medical records are used by your doctors, that problem becomes trivial. Not that there aren't other problems, like mandatory reporting of certain medical items to your state (in our state, all immunizations must be reported) and access by the FAA directly.
Click to expand...

But bad data and data entry mistakes, or worse, Docs trying to game the payment systems by sticking in "whatever diagnoses works to get paid" becomes a HUGE problem when you start to integrate databases and let computers trigger real world decisions of whether someone is healthy, based on that bad data.

It changes the problems, but it doesn't necessarily make problems go away. Let's not even go into the problems it creates for otherwise healthy systems engineers who have to keep all that crap running. Hah. Probably raises their blood pressure and makes them less healthy, even... ;)

"But the computer says..." I hate it when I hear that phrase. People lie to computers and then wonder why the computers kick out a "You better check on this guy/gal..." downstream.

The assumptions are backward. The data should be considered wrong and investigated without bothering the individual who didn't enter the data, never the other way around. But that's not the current norm in any database driven system.
 
denverpilot said:
Anyone else catch that disconnect? I noticed it as a systems engineer...

The MedXpress asks for three years, and there's medicals that last longer than 3 years now, for those under 40.

I saw it and just chuckled. This was my first "over 40" medical this time around and I realized I could have had a medical visit the year I got it, and it wouldn't be reportable on MedXpress, and I wouldn't be lying on the form.

Just an example of people building systems who don't pay attention to the details that need to change when they change something in the system.

This is the exact same problem that makes modern software suck so bad. Nobody tracks the big picture constraints, two separate engineers working on two separate areas who never communicate but each build in a different set of conflicting constraints.

Entertaining to see it everywhere once you've had a job role for a couple decades that requires you see them daily and work to bonk the two over the head that they broke the overall system by not paying attention to the overall "business rules".

Often caused by not having good documentation of those rules in software but in FAA's case, on this one, that's obviously not a problem.
Click to expand...
My problem is the opposite one. I fill out the form every six months so why do I need to re-report the doctors I've seen between six months and three years ago? The FAA already has that information. At least you can state, "prior visits" if the visit was for the same condition.
 
I believe 8500-8 said three years even before the third class got extended to five years. Remember not everybody already has a current medical when they go in for an examination. I've got a ten year hole in my log book (and about six years of that I had no medical, just because since I wasn't flying, I didn't see any need to go get one).
 
denverpilot said:
But bad data and data entry mistakes, or worse, Docs trying to game the payment systems by sticking in "whatever diagnoses works to get paid" becomes a HUGE problem when you start to integrate databases and let computers trigger real world decisions of whether someone is healthy, based on that bad data.

It changes the problems, but it doesn't necessarily make problems go away. Let's not even go into the problems it creates for otherwise healthy systems engineers who have to keep all that crap running. Hah. Probably raises their blood pressure and makes them less healthy, even... ;)

"But the computer says..." I hate it when I hear that phrase. People lie to computers and then wonder why the computers kick out a "You better check on this guy/gal..." downstream.

The assumptions are backward. The data should be considered wrong and investigated without bothering the individual who didn't enter the data, never the other way around. But that's not the current norm in any database driven system.
Click to expand...
That problem exists today. Doc may try to game the system by putting down a diagnosis that he/she doesn't even tell you about to try and get a higher reimbursement.

You tell the FAA about one diagnosis, but omit the other because Doc didn't tell you. What then?

That problem becomes worse with electronic records, but at least you might know if you have access to see the records.

Garbage in, garbage out.
 
Here's something I've been wondering about: If the database has false information about you and that causes a loss of flying privileges, can the person who caused that false information to be entered into the database be successfully sued for libel?

I'm not saying this would be a practical solution, but it's interesting to think about.
 
Palmpilot said:
Here's something I've been wondering about: If the database has false information about you and that causes a loss of flying privileges, can the person who caused that false information to be entered into the database be successfully sued for libel?

I'm not saying this would be a practical solution, but it's interesting to think about.
Click to expand...
You can sue anyone for anything, and win if you can convince the judge or jury that the other party unjustly caused harm to you.
 
wsuffa said:
That problem exists today. Doc may try to game the system by putting down a diagnosis that he/she doesn't even tell you about to try and get a higher reimbursement.

You tell the FAA about one diagnosis, but omit the other because Doc didn't tell you. What then?

That problem becomes worse with electronic records, but at least you might know if you have access to see the records.

Garbage in, garbage out.
Click to expand...
I hope folks are starting to learn in the age of modern medicine that they have to be their own advocate and take ownership of their medical treatment plan and medical records.
 
Brad Z said:
You can sue anyone for anything, and win if you can convince the judge or jury that the other party unjustly caused harm to you.
Click to expand...
Yes of course. I'm just wondering if folks think this strategy would be likely to succeed.
 
Palmpilot said:
Yes of course. I'm just wondering if folks think this strategy would be likely to succeed.
Click to expand...
I don't know, but I doubt it's common. Further, I think the plaintiff would have a really hard time proving that the Dr. made a bogus DX. It seems most folks who have significant skin in the game (i.e. pro pilots) are paranoid enough about keeping their medical that they know enough to make sure they don't get an unexpected "bad" diagnosis. It seems that most folks who trip up in the bad DX situation are just starting out, so it would be difficult to prove future damages of lost income for someone who only holds a student pilot certificate.
 
Brad Z said:
I don't know, but I doubt it's common....
Click to expand...
I doubt that it's ever been tried. Your assessment of the difficulties sounds very plausible, and reinforces my doubt about its being a practical solution. It's just fun to fantasize about.
 
Brad Z said:
I hope folks are starting to learn in the age of modern medicine that they have to be their own advocate and take ownership of their medical treatment plan and medical records.
Click to expand...
Some are, but some docs still resist letting folks see their records. YMMV.
 
In the days following most Dr visits, I call the med records office and ask for a copy including any lab work, imaging. I explain there was nothing wrong with the care I received, I simply like to be the keeper of my complete medical records. I keep the notes, the disks in a folder at home. I have never had hesitation or charge for doing so; they seem to accept my explanation. Sometimes I learn things not expressed in the exam room, or see lab tests I had not known about, or simply get insight into my abused and rapidly aging body (!)

There is nothing about hippa or medical record sharing in this day an age that assures Doc A will know what Doc B has done. I facilitate that, in the hopes of improving my care.
 
Everskyward said:
My problem is the opposite one. I fill out the form every six months so why do I need to re-report the doctors I've seen between six months and three years ago? The FAA already has that information. At least you can state, "prior visits" if the visit was for the same condition.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's that weird mix that happens when a paper form gets translated to a computer system. The design is wrong. It's not about the form, it's about the individual visits and dates and that's what databases do best... but they're trying to fill out a form with a flaw in the date range with a computer system. It's goofy.

But that said, I'll take it over the paper form any day of the week.

wsuffa said:
That problem exists today. Doc may try to game the system by putting down a diagnosis that he/she doesn't even tell you about to try and get a higher reimbursement.

You tell the FAA about one diagnosis, but omit the other because Doc didn't tell you. What then?

That problem becomes worse with electronic records, but at least you might know if you have access to see the records.

Garbage in, garbage out.
Click to expand...

My wife saw a lot of this (and even put a stop to some of it) when she worked closer to Medicare than private practice. Medicare's ridiculous system of codes for diagnoses and what they'd pay money-wise for two different but similar sounding diagnoses that could mean what the other means, meant that frustrated Docs, Nurses, and back offices would all share "tips" on which codes got paid closer to the actual level of work done.

Of course there are documents that clear up which one is which and the somewhat OCD nurse that lives here kinda didn't want auditors going after more than one of her employers for misunderstandings on which diagnostic codes to use, so she'd fix it in audits.

Brad Z said:
I hope folks are starting to learn in the age of modern medicine that they have to be their own advocate and take ownership of their medical treatment plan and medical records.
Click to expand...

wsuffa said:
Some are, but some docs still resist letting folks see their records. YMMV.
Click to expand...

This. I had one of those long ago. I fired him.
 
The clinic I go to routinely lets patients see their test results online.
 
I just ask my doctor and dentist for a printout of my visits. If you remember which doctors you saw, it is a completely painless process.
 
denverpilot said:
Anyone else catch that disconnect? I noticed it as a systems engineer...

The MedXpress asks for three years, and there's medicals that last longer than 3 years now, for those under 40.

I saw it and just chuckled. This was my first "over 40" medical this time around and I realized I could have had a medical visit the year I got it, and it wouldn't be reportable on MedXpress, and I wouldn't be lying on the form.

Just an example of people building systems who don't pay attention to the details that need to change when they change something in the system.

This is the exact same problem that makes modern software suck so bad. Nobody tracks the big picture constraints, two separate engineers working on two separate areas who never communicate but each build in a different set of conflicting constraints.

Entertaining to see it everywhere once you've had a job role for a couple decades that requires you see them daily and work to bonk the two over the head that they broke the overall system by not paying attention to the overall "business rules".

Often caused by not having good documentation of those rules in software but in FAA's case, on this one, that's obviously not a problem.
Click to expand...
Amen to all of that, Brother!
 
wsuffa said:
Once electronic medical records are used by your doctors, that problem becomes trivial. Not that there aren't other problems, like mandatory reporting of certain medical items to your state (in our state, all immunizations must be reported) and access by the FAA directly.
Click to expand...
I, for one, welcome our new Overlords!
 
paflyer said:
I, for one, welcome our new Overlords!
Click to expand...
Not completely new.

I got a letter from my health care "insurance" company last week informing me that their records showed that my care may be lacking since they had not yet received a claim for my flu shot this year nor had they received either blood test results or a claim regarding same since I am on a particular hypertension drug that may affect potassium levels. A copy was sent to my doc to "make sure i am getting appropriate treatment." I have actually had both of those done within the last 45 days (and altered the drug dosage)... I find the behavior of the insurance company inferring that I am not getting appropriate treatment to be intrusive and meddlesome. Imagine what will happen if they get the force of law behind them....
 
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