Cirrus down in the Bahamas

JasonM said:
....I guess we could guesstimate weights based on these photos: http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2013/11/bahamas-police-small-plane-crash-likely.html
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from this link:

Emrick Seymour, assistant police commissioner for Grand Bahama, said the plane crashed minutes after takeoff from the island’s international airport. He said the pilot radioed that the plane was “experiencing some engine problems.”

and also:

Rescue and recovery teams removed the bodies of the victims from the mangled wreck in about a foot-and-a-half of water.

either way, this just sux.
 
Henning said:
Not everyone can, that's just it. In the face of a fatal type emergency, some people disassociate like the guys in AF-447.
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How does one find out how they will react in an emergency? I hope that I could keep my head and do what needs to be done but I sure would like to know without having to actually suffer a life threatening emergency!
 
That's it, despite sims and HR questions and all the other feel good BS, you don't really know till you know.
 
mchesney said:
How does one find out how they will react in an emergency? I hope that I could keep my head and do what needs to be done but I sure would like to know without having to actually suffer a life threatening emergency!
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Have a real emergency, look at death 2' in front of your nose and say "Howdy". You'll either get a time dilation effect where everything is extremely calm and you just think and act your way through it, or it's extremely calm and you just sit there like you're watching it happen to someone else on TV. It's not just in planes, I first came across it racing motorcycles and later cars. Death is a pretty calm event from all appearances.

In a good simulator with some drugs I think you may be able to duplicate the stressor, but not sure.
 
mchesney said:
How does one find out how they will react in an emergency?
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There are no good ways to know.
Law enforcement and the military have tried for decades to simulate the stress of imminent death or intense crisis. There are some ways to approximate it. By physical stress, by creating some VERY realistic scenario based simulations, etc.

But in the end, you only know what someone's made of when the fight starts.
 
Blatham489 said:
Wow, you're not exaggerating.

Edit: Just used a template on WnB Pro for the SR-22, it's got more useful but not a lot, maybe another 120lbs. So either that template is a stripped down version (no AC?) or the template above is a pig, or some combination. Either way you appear to be on to something.
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Looks like the main problem is forward CG limits. I'd have to go reduced fuel to put me and my wife up front and nobody else on board, but can go full fuel if one of us goes to the backseat. And we're "average" Americans, not obese, but not FAA Standard either. Move somebody to the back and put your charts on the right seat, or let her bring that extra suitcase and toss it way in the back.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Looks like the main problem is forward CG limits. I'd have to go reduced fuel to put me and my wife up front and nobody else on board, but can go full fuel if one of us goes to the backseat. And we're "average" Americans, not obese, but not FAA Standard either. Move somebody to the back and put your charts on the right seat, or let her bring that extra suitcase and toss it way in the back.
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With the exception of a G2 turbo with AC but without the tail ballast, it is very difficult to get an SR22 out of CG. You are more likely to get out to the rear with lots of luggage and heavy rear seat passengers and even that isn't easy. Two couples are pretty easy to carry if fueled to tabs. I guess if you have both a turbo and AC then that would be different. Without turbo or AC full fuel leaves between 500 and 650 lbs of load. 650 is rare with more like 620 for a 2002 and lower in the 500+ range for G2 onward with TKS. For a G2 or earlier full is 81 and tabs is 47 so 704 to 854.
 
RIP to all.
Lots of criticism,probably this , should have done that,etc..
Sometimes it's just your time to go, but whoever it was in the four was flying with three others.
One thing that wasn't mentioned was:
Could this be another Bermuda triangle mystery?:dunno:
 
I don't think the Bermuda Triangle is anywhere close to the Bahamas is it?

Well, I stand corrected, I just looked it up and the Bahamas are indeed inside the southern boundary...barely...but indeed inside.
 
timwinters said:
I don't think the Bermuda Triangle is anywhere close to the Bahamas is it?

Well, I stand corrected, I just looked it up and the Bahamas are indeed inside the southern boundary...barely...but indeed inside.
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Yep, draw a triangle from Bermuda to San Juan PR to Miami and you get the layout.
 
timwinters said:
I don't think the Bermuda Triangle is anywhere close to the Bahamas is it?

Well, I stand corrected, I just looked it up and the Bahamas are indeed inside the southern boundary...barely...but indeed inside.
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You see Tim I'm not as dumb as I look:wink2:
I threw in the Bermuda Triangle for grins as everyone seems to want to armchair this accident.
High percentage pilot error will be stated by NTSB but is usually a chain of events with the weakest link creating the result. You would think you would be seeing all 4 wading away from the wreckage on this:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
YGTBFKM....:confused:
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Obviously from the look of the wreckage not this time, but not knowing what the pilot did, from what altitude,etc ?
What I'm saying is people have survived worse encounters with the ground on emergency landings and survived. I'd take my chances on that location over dense forest most any day.
1 1/2 ft. of water, should have been able to set it down, no obstructions, don't the Cirrus's have airbags?
It would have flipped but still maybe survivable . Don't know ,never flew a Cirrus before, probably better if it would have been some kind of retract :dunno:
I'm guessing here as I've never crashed a plane yet.:yikes:
 
el con said:
Obviously from the look of the wreckage not this time, but not knowing what the pilot did, from what altitude,etc ?
What I'm saying is people have survived worse encounters with the ground on emergency landings and survived. I'd take my chances on that location over dense forest most any day.
1 1/2 ft. of water, should have been able to set it down, no obstructions, don't the Cirrus's have airbags?
It would have flipped but still maybe survivable . Don't know ,never flew a Cirrus before, probably better if it would have been some kind of retract :dunno:
I'm guessing here as I've never crashed a plane yet.:yikes:
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This was definitely a pilot failure on an otherwise survivable event. Yes, I would expect engine troubles in this event to lead to 4 people wading to shore and having cocktails. However not everyone handles stress the same way. If you disassociate, you quit 'flying the airplane', and that pretty much eliminates all energy management which leads to a high energy impact producing the results you see here.
 
el con said:
Obviously from the look of the wreckage not this time, but not knowing what the pilot did, from what altitude,etc ?
What I'm saying is people have survived worse encounters with the ground on emergency landings and survived. I'd take my chances on that location over dense forest most any day.
1 1/2 ft. of water, should have been able to set it down, no obstructions, don't the Cirrus's have airbags?
It would have flipped but still maybe survivable . Don't know ,never flew a Cirrus before, probably better if it would have been some kind of retract :dunno:
I'm guessing here as I've never crashed a plane yet.:yikes:
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I agree to 100% of that...:yes:
 
My guess is some sort of a problem, and the pilot, under stress, began a turn which was too slow and skidding.

Cirrus's in that scenario can roll over into a spin pretty dramatically. At anything at or under 1,000', I doubt any pilot could "disengage" enough to pull the chute.

Anyway, as analyzed over on COPA the wreckage seems consistent with a spin, though that's still speculative, of course.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nm_hoHhbFo

FastEddieB said:
My guess is some sort of a problem, and the pilot, under stress, began a turn which was too slow and skidding.

Cirrus's in that scenario can roll over into a spin pretty dramatically. At anything at or under 1,000', I doubt any pilot could "disengage" enough to pull the chute.

Anyway, as analyzed over on COPA the wreckage seems consistent with a spin, though that's still speculative, of course.
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Henning said:
This was definitely a pilot failure on an otherwise survivable event. Yes, I would expect engine troubles in this event to lead to 4 people wading to shore and having cocktails. However not everyone handles stress the same way. If you disassociate, you quit 'flying the airplane', and that pretty much eliminates all energy management which leads to a high energy impact producing the results you see here.
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Agreed
 
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