Cirrus Aircraft acquired by China

I’ll admit that plastic airplanes are never on my list of desirable airplanes. Especially dislike Cirrus and the aviation media’s fawning attitude towards the company. Thinks the advertising dollars that Cirrus spent in various magazines bought them favorable press. Still don’t understand why the FAA certified the plane whose only method available to recover from a spin was to pull the chute. Before a Senior Editor for Flying magazine retired he wrote an article on how the Cirrus has a better safety record than the Cessna 182. The next month he was forced to change his tune after people pointed out that investigators for NTSB were listing the Cirrus under more than one name. Turns out the Cessna 182 has a better safety record.
 
why don't you like fiberglass structure?
 
You cant turn a Chinese screw without stripping it...
 
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All the Chinese corporate books are a fiction anyway, so why does it matter?

Word on the street is that the valuation and earnings numbers on these companies is much bigger than the Madoff deal, and a number of portfolio managers are shorting every Chinese company that is listed here but not there. There's no way the SEC or any US regulatory agency can go after such companies, and if they're not listed on their home exchange the local regulators have no reason to chase them.

steingar said:
My real worry in seeing an aircraft manufacturer change hands repeatedly is eventually the company will carry so much debt that it will be insolvent despite making a nice profit. Happened to my local grocer.

I am not in the least worried about the Chinese snapping up cutting edge 1970s technology.
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China just swims in dollars that we send over because of the huge trade deficit. They've got to use them to buy something.
 
PittsDriver said:
I don't think the Chinese are investing in US based GA companies because of anything to do with our market here. The future of GA is in China. I don't see any significant R&D dollars being spent here on Cirrus or Continental despite the press reports to the contrary. I see a bunch of Chinese aerospace people running around in these companies for a few years and then building their own products for their market in China. Money will be spent here to the extent that it helps them with their massive opportunity there. We may see a Cirrus Jet but I don't think any of this is good for piston GA here. For some reason I can't quite put my finger on :rolleyes2:, I think there's little chance they'll want to build aircraft here to satisfy that demand. :yinyang:
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NoHeat said:
China just swims in dollars that we send over because of the huge trade deficit. They've got to use them to buy something.
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+1

IMHO --
I believe the future of GA here is bleak. As the GA pilot population continues to decline there is less GA $$$ available to influence politicians so we will see GA costs continue to escalate in a declining consumer market. Neither the Chinese nor any other country will see us as much of a market for their aircraft. :sad:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
LSAs are not VFR-only. The Sport Pilot rule only allows for VFR flight, but there are LSAs out there that are IFR certified. Jay Maynard's Tron-Zodiac had a very nice IFR-certified panel.

The problem LSAs have is that, for the price of a new LSA, you can buy a lot of used planes that will cost a bit more to operate, but still be pretty reasonable. I have a hard time making the argument that anyone should buy a $100,000 LSA when, for half the cost, I can buy a nice Mooney M20F that's faster, holds more, etc. The only disadvantage is that you're looking at used vs. new, if you consider used to be a disadvantage (I don't).

For $100k you need to get at least a new 182 to bring aviation back to the people. At that point, many of the people who are currently priced out of aviation would be able to return to it. It would also help the rest of us because that would drive down the costs of current equivalent airplanes.
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I think LSA are for VFR only. They can be equipped for IFR training but only in VMC. The exception would be a ELSA. But back to the Cirrus I hate they were bought by the Chinese. I hate to see US companies being sold to overseas investors. I understand they have not been American for some time however it is still sad. At one time this was the dream of two American brothers who were very smart and hard working. I hate the dream has been lost for them.
 
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denverpilot said:
I'd have mixed feelings about that... my 35 year old 182 would be pretty worthless overnight if Cessna figured out how to do that. They won't so I'm pretty safe. :)

Sadly, the best thing that can happen for me personally is Cessna keeps making $350K 182s and limping the production line along, so mine is still supported by an "alive" manufacturer of parts. If they were to go under, organic growth would help the value of my airframe for a short time, but parts availability would become a problem like the Commanders, and then prices would fall dramatically.

I'd like to root for scenario #1... affordable Cessnas... but it'd be bad for me. And Cessna going out of biz would also be bad.

The middle of the road where they're making overpriced 182s is the best place for me, and probably the worst place for GA as a whole.

Sick and twisted Catch-22.
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They have not been 350k in 5-10 yrs.
 
dennyleeb said:
I think LSA are for VFR only. They can be equipped for IFR training but only in VMC. The exception would be a ELSA. But back to the Cirrus I hate they were bought by the Chinese. I hate to see US companies being sold to overseas investors. I understand they have not been American for some time however it is still sad. At one time this was the dream of two American brothers who were very smart and hard working. I hate the dream has been lost for them.
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The Sport Pilot Rule only allows VFR flight. However an LSA aircraft itself can be IFR equipped and certified. As a PP-ASEL-IA, CP-ASEL-IA, or ATP-ASEL that is NOT operating under the sport pilot rule, I can operate an LSA aircraft that is IFR equipped and certified into IMC.

This is a point that is of much confusion with many people. Most LSAs are only equipped as VFR aircraft as that is the target market. In Jay's case, he had his LSA equipped and certified for IFR flight because he wanted to be able to fly in instrument conditions, either with a CFII, instrument rated pilot, or if the third class medical ever got eliminated entirely.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The Sport Pilot Rule only allows VFR flight. However an LSA aircraft itself can be IFR equipped and certified. As a PP-ASEL-IA, CP-ASEL-IA, or ATP-ASEL that is NOT operating under the sport pilot rule, I can operate an LSA aircraft that is IFR equipped and certified into IMC.

This is a point that is of much confusion with many people. Most LSAs are only equipped as VFR aircraft as that is the target market. In Jay's case, he had his LSA equipped and certified for IFR flight because he wanted to be able to fly in instrument conditions, either with a CFII, instrument rated pilot, or if the third class medical ever got eliminated entirely.
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was his a ELSA?
 
dennyleeb said:
was his a ELSA?
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SLSA, as I recall. Factory built. See delivery day picture:

N55ZC-keys.jpg
 
dennyleeb said:
I think LSA are for VFR only. They can be equipped for IFR training but only in VMC. The exception would be a ELSA. But back to the Cirrus I hate they were bought by the Chinese. I hate to see US companies being sold to overseas investors. I understand they have not been American for some time however it is still sad. At one time this was the dream of two American brothers who were very smart and hard working. I hate the dream has been lost for them.
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The AMD Zodiac can be equipped to be IFR certified. Most LSAs are not IFR certified.
http://www.newplane.com/650/index.htm
 
dennyleeb said:
That is what Ted explained. My first plane was a SLSA Jabiru. It was a great plane. Was it not the Zodiac's that fall apart in flight?
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There was a wing spar issue that I'm not familiar on all the details on, but basically tanked the value of the aircraft. Of course, it makes sense for values to tank of wings are falling off. I wouldn't want that to happen to me.
 
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