Christen Eagle crash June 2012

Someone knows the pilot quick-> Everyone switch out of wild speculation/pilot was a retard mode, turn on sympathy could happen to anybody mode.
(cracks me up how that works)
 
MachFly said:
That's not very appropriate..

Not appropriate? He walked away with a twisted ankle and unhurt otherwise. You are asking the questions, if you want the correct answer call or email him.... Maybe you are not appropriate...
You ask something here you will get everyone's opinion and not the correct answer. I am sure Buck knows what happened.
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pigpenracing said:
MachFly said:
That's not very appropriate..

Not appropriate? He walked away with a twisted ankle and unhurt otherwise. You are asking the questions, if you want the correct answer call or email him.... Maybe you are not appropriate...
You ask something here you will get everyone's opinion and not the correct answer. I am sure Buck knows what happened.
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I don't even know the guy. The first thing you want me to ask him is "how did you crash?" :confused:

I'm only trying to learn something here, got nothing against the guy. If you know him that well, you mind asking for me?
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Henning said:
Looks to me like he ran out of energy and altitude at the same time.
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I first thought that maybe he lost awareness of his altitude, but that was just a guess. Looks like it's not his first time flying airshows so he probably knew what he was doing. And the NTSB report does not backup that theory.
 
MachFly said:
I first thought that maybe he lost awareness of his altitude, but that was just a guess. Looks like it's not his first time flying airshows so he probably knew what he was doing. And the NTSB report does not backup that theory.
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It looked to me like he knew his altitude just fine, he just didn't have the energy for the turn at the end with no altitude to give up.
 
Henning said:
It looked to me like he knew his altitude just fine, he just didn't have the energy for the turn at the end with no altitude to give up.
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Look at the very end, 0:18. Why did he start rolling right? If he was out of energy then it's best to straighten out.

Also why did he turn the smoke on? If he is was trying to recover or realized something is wrong why bother with the smoke? Perhaps accidentally hit the switch in the cockpit while moving his hand to something else?
 
MachFly said:
Look at the very end, 0:18. Why did he start rolling right? If he was out of energy then it's best to straighten out.

Also why did he turn the smoke on? If he is was trying to recover or realized something is wrong why bother with the smoke? Perhaps accidentally hit the switch in the cockpit while moving his hand to something else?
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No idea, my best guess is he didn't realize how low his energy state was and kept performing his routine.
 
I'll see if I can find another video of a similar one of his shows to see what was next in the sequence.
 
MachFly said:
Also why did he turn the smoke on? If he is was trying to recover or realized something is wrong why bother with the smoke? Perhaps accidentally hit the switch in the cockpit while moving his hand to something else?
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I'm sure he did not turn the smoke on. Small amounts of smoke oil can puke out at times even when not turned on. It's nothing like the billowing cloud you get from turning the pump on. That's what this looked like to me.

It does seem unusual to me that such a low energy roll was continued to such low altitude. He was already low, slow, and descending before the last 360 degrees of rotation, during which he indicates the prop went "full course pitch". Although the NTSB report indicates it went flat. That must be what he meant. Certain aerobatic props have accumulators to prevent the prop from going flat and overspeeding if oil pressure is lost. If the accumulator fails, then the prop should go flat, and I would expect to hear a big prop surge. A counterweighted prop would go course (high pitch) with oil pressure loss, and the prop would not surge. I don't know anything about his particular prop configuration. I'm interested in exactly what happened from an aerobatic and safety standpoint, but in the end, it's nobody else's business but his.

Below is what Buck himself said about this accident. If he was aware of his altitude and energy state the whole time, then he boxed himself into a situation where a power loss at the wrong time would be bad news. Some airshow pilots try to avoid doing that, and others accept the risk. He was fortunate here.

"...flown a hundred times have never done anything unpracticed at an airshow. It is a series of right shoulder rolls flown in an arcing shape. Prop went full corse pitch on the last one (oil pressure) suspecting that accumulator lost precharge at some time. Jim I was fully aware of my altitude. When thrust rolled back it was at 300 ft i lost all energy. Was able to stop and get wings back almost level and 3point attitude before impact. Dinged up ankle and a few scratches. If you are not wearing a helmet get one. No longer with Red Eagle Airsports. I will be more than happy to answer any questions as more info comes."
 
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whifferdill said:
It does seem unusual to me that such a low energy roll was continued to such low altitude. He was already low, slow, and descending before the last 360 degrees of rotation, during which he indicates the prop went "full course pitch".
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It looks like the roll really became a low energy affair around the 12 second mark. It looks to me like the airplane is at a really high AoA on the last three rolls. Like he went from aileron rolls in the beginning, transitioning to snap rolls that became very buried. It looks ugly from about 12 seconds on. I'm really glad he was not seriously injured.
 
whifferdill said:
It does seem unusual to me that such a low energy roll was continued to such low altitude. He was already low, slow, and descending before the last 360 degrees of rotation, during which he indicates the prop went "full course pitch".
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It looks like the roll really became a low energy affair around the 12 second mark. It looks to me like the airplane is at a really high AoA on the last three rolls. Like he went from aileron rolls in the beginning, transitioning to snap rolls that became increasingly buried. Can't tell if that is his intent or not. It looks ugly from about 12 seconds on. I'm really glad he was not seriously injured.
 
dell30rb said:
It looks to me like the airplane is at a really high AoA on the last three rolls. Like he went from aileron rolls in the beginning, transitioning to snap rolls that became increasingly buried. Can't tell if that is his intent or not.
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Ren- it didn't start snapping at any point. This was a mild shoulder roll flown on a low speed arc. A shoulder roll is basically an aileron driven roll where a degree of rudder and elevator is applied to give the roll a 3D look. This one was done at low speed without much rudder or elevator to give it much 3D effect. A shoulder roll with a lot of rudder and elevator can look sorta like a tumble, which is the point, but it's not a tumble, and is much more controllable and safe to do at lower altitudes than a tumble. If it had started snapping at the end, there would have been a point where you could see the snap clearly break, with a much higher rotation rate. He would have needed full aft stick to bury a snap bad enough to cause anywhere near such a slow rotation. He was just flying though the mild shoulder roll with not much elevator deflection.

Just a little odd to me to fly such a low energy continuous roll like this to such a low altitude. IMO, a higher speed, more dynamic shoulder roll limited to maybe 3 rotations would have been more interesting from a presentation standpoint. Usually airshow pilots want to be in a high energy state when very low to the ground.

None of this is meant to imply that he is an unskilled, inexperienced airshow pilot who lacks professionalism. I do not believe that to be the case. I just find it curious is all.
 
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whifferdill said:
"...flown a hundred times have never done anything unpracticed at an airshow. It is a series of right shoulder rolls flown in an arcing shape. Prop went full corse pitch on the last one (oil pressure) suspecting that accumulator lost precharge at some time. Jim I was fully aware of my altitude. When thrust rolled back it was at 300 ft i lost all energy. Was able to stop and get wings back almost level and 3point attitude before impact. Dinged up ankle and a few scratches. If you are not wearing a helmet get one. No longer with Red Eagle Airsports. I will be more than happy to answer any questions as more info comes."
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Interesting



whifferdill said:
None of this is meant to imply that he is an unskilled, inexperienced airshow pilot who lacks professionalism. I do not believe that to be the case. I just find it curious is all.
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Agreed
 
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