Chief update

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
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May 11, 2007
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Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
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Display name:
Dan Mc
I've had the 1940 65hp Chief nearly a month now. I've logged 17 hours, a few dozen landings, burned about 65 gallons of fuel (50% 100LL, 50% BP premium 93 octane), hand started about 20 times, and watch the dipstick go down less than 1 quart of oil (about 3.2 qts in now, the other .8 is on the gear and belly).

Each time I fly it I have to remind myself to keep it straight on takeoff and landings. The last 10 hours worth of takeoffs have been fine with little or no drift. Landings have varied as I learn the correct sight picture on touchdown. It's actually possible to pull back too far and have the tailwheel strike first before it stalls.

So I've found it's best to be on short approach at 50 MPH, level off about 5' AGL, and hold it level as it bleeds off speed, then let it sink gradually while NOT letting it stall. I found it lands much more gently and with less stress on the gear if I maintain the taxi nose-up attitude and let it settle to earth rather than hold it off and wait for the stall (yes, there is a difference).

Sure, you can stall 1' AGL, and the airplane will drop down on all three points, but 99% of the time it will strike tail first. This airplane was upgraded with the Maule tailwheel some time back, but a glance at the structure supporting the spring will reinforce the need to protect the tail.

So touchdown is accomplished 2-3 MPH before stall. This results in a touchdown in the 35-37 MPH range (not sure how accurate the ASI is at those speeds, and I haven't been looking at it much).

What really helped me learn to keep it straight was to keep the small bulge on the left side of the cowl running along whatever line I choose to use (edge of runway, centerline, grass cut edge, etc). I learned that through trial and error and it seems to work for me. Even though I'm 6'1", I can't see over the nose when in the landing attitude (except on wheel landings).

I need to take some more dual to perfect my wheel landings. I think I'll end up preferring them in time as they seem to provide more control throughout the landing run. You're balancing a pin on a bowling ball when flying to 3 point and any litle breeze can mess things up.

In the air the airplane is predictable and honest. What I ask it to do it does without complain (except go fast :rolleyes:).

Airwork is fairly standard, though I seem more aware that I am flying a wing (if that makes sense). This airplane can show you what adverse yaw is in 5 seconds, whereas it doesn't mean much to modern airplane drivers (give a few BFRs and you'll see how flat-footed many pilots are, and can be, as the airplanes cover up mistakes).

I'm still re-teaching my feet on takeoff and landing. In more modern airplanes the rudder is handled with pressure. But in a light taildragger the rudder is handled with a frequent series of slight adjustments, with big adjustments in reserve and used when needed.

I'm still amazed at how much altitude I can lose in a small space by slipping. I haven't exhausted all the slip I have available yet (though I came close yesterday). It's good to know I can slip steeply over a treeline and gain back the close end of a grass runway or field. It's even more comforting to know touchdown will be slow, and an intentional groundloop can absorb alot of residual energy in the event of a very short field emergency landing.

So far, so good! :D
 
Here's what might be a dumb question: what differences, if any, are you seeing with running the two kinds of gas? Or, are you running a half-and-half mix?
 
Here's what might be a dumb question: what differences, if any, are you seeing with running the two kinds of gas? Or, are you running a half-and-half mix?

So far, no difference. The ratio is not scientific -- more like, "add 5 gallons of mogas" after running 100LL down a bit.

I have noticed far less RPM needle flicker (which I used to see early on before I ran mogas), and RPM drop during runup is around 50 per side.

I runup to 1500 RPM after taxiing in with fuel off if I'm parking for the night. Then back to 1000 RPM until it sputters off.

Startup is simple -- 4 shots primer, mags off, prop through 6 turns, mags on, toss prop. Usually starts on 2nd or 3rd throw.
 
It seems like some folks prefer the wheel landing and other folks prefer the 3-point. It probably varies some depending on the airplane. I generally find wheel landings easy but almost always 3 point.

Those old airplanes sure are a lot of damn fun.
 
Sure, you can stall 1' AGL, and the airplane will drop down on all three points, but 99% of the time it will strike tail first. This airplane was upgraded with the Maule tailwheel some time back, but a glance at the structure supporting the spring will reinforce the need to protect the tail.

It's not unusual for a taildragger three point touchdown to be above the stall speed (I hesitate to use the word typical since my sample size is not that large). So you really aren't doing "full stall" landings any more - you are doing "three pointers".

I need to take some more dual to perfect my wheel landings. I think I'll end up preferring them in time as they seem to provide more control throughout the landing run.

Being as I am a lazy butt, I purd near always did wheelies because I found them easier. But I suspect a lot depends on the airplane (and the pilot) - some like wheel landings, some don't.

Some (well intentioned, but sadly misinformed) instructors have been known to tell students to shove the stick / wheel forward to nail the mains - not a really good idea. One local flying club went through several props on a Citabria before they figured out what one of the instructors was telling the students. :nono:
Just set it down nice and hold it there. No big deal.

edit: by "hold it there" I mean hold the nose attitude not hold the stick position / pressure.
 
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I'm still amazed at how much altitude I can lose in a small space by slipping.

A few guys at LOM (some PoAers and a helicopter pilot) can tell you that it's rather incredible what a slip will produce. :)

Glad you're enjoying your new toy, it sounds like the Chief is a really fun plane.
 
A few guys at LOM (some PoAers and a helicopter pilot) can tell you that it's rather incredible what a slip will produce. :)

Glad you're enjoying your new toy, it sounds like the Chief is a really fun plane.


Example..... :D
 

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A few guys at LOM (some PoAers and a helicopter pilot) can tell you that it's rather incredible what a slip will produce. :)

:rofl:
I didn't realize that Rob had a camera!!!!!!!

Is the Aeronca spin-legal? I mean, I know all those old air-flivvers are willing to spin. Do the old grannies at FAA think it's ok for you to do so???
 
:rofl:
I didn't realize that Rob had a camera!!!!!!!

Is the Aeronca spin-legal? I mean, I know all those old air-flivvers are willing to spin. Do the old grannies at FAA think it's ok for you to do so???

Very spin legal. But I haven't been spinning yet. It takes a while to get to altitude, and so far I've been enjoying the view from down low.

:yesnod:
 
Rob: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Andrew: Me neither!

Dan: The aforementioned slip was when I was coming into LOM on June 10th to pick up AdamB for Gaston's. The whole LOM crowd was there for a pizza dinner (and Mary Mascelli was kind enough to note it was my 25th birthday and bought me a cake). As I'm coming in, a helicopter was reporting my same position as I turned final, 300 ft below me (not announcing he was a helicopter), and neither of us saw eachother. I started to climb to do a go-around, when he stated he saw me and I could go first. This put me at least 1000 ft AGL or short final.

Full flaps, props forward, throttles to idle, gear down, and full slip on the Aztec (which puts the thing about sideways - that's a huge rudder) and we had a glide ratio rivaling most Steinways. My passenger (also a pilot) said "Are we going to make this?" I said "Beats me - we'll find out." Of course, I could have initiated a go-around at any time, but wanted to see just if it would make it. Straightened out right over the numbers for a smooth touchdown. The crowd went wild. Men cheered, women wept.

We then saw the helicopter. The pilot came up to me a few minutes later and said "Are you with the Aztec?" "Yes" "Can I talk to you for a second?" He pulled me off to the side, and apologized profusely for the situation, taking full responsibility. He then said "That was the coolest landing I've ever seen in an Aztec! I had no idea it would do that!" "Well, I didn't either!" Apparently it was a MedEvac flight. The pilot and copilot were watching in awe, and apparently the patient on the stretcher then started moving and wanted to see. :)

Slips? Yeah, they're pretty nifty tools!
 
It seems like some folks prefer the wheel landing and other folks prefer the 3-point. It probably varies some depending on the airplane.

The Swift folks say that wheel landings are the only way to go - If you try to three-point, as you approach 3-point attitude the inside of the gear wells is exposed to the relative wind and you get a fairly sudden and very large increase in drag and the plane will drop the rest of the way to the ground.

I'm sure other airplanes are better at 3-pointers, and plenty are good at whichever. :yes:
 
The Swift folks say that wheel landings are the only way to go - If you try to three-point, as you approach 3-point attitude the inside of the gear wells is exposed to the relative wind and you get a fairly sudden and very large increase in drag and the plane will drop the rest of the way to the ground.

I'm sure other airplanes are better at 3-pointers, and plenty are good at whichever. :yes:

My Dad owns a Swift with the 210hp conversion. I've 3 pointed it and wheel landed it and never really noticed the difference.

DSC04250.jpg
 
Nice airplane! Performance figures...?

It will cruise about 165mph burning 10gph. My dad spent 7 years rebuilding it.

Some of the 210 Swift owners are claiming much higher cruise numbers but we have found out 165mph below 6000' and about 175mph above works well.
 
It will cruise about 165mph burning 10gph. My dad spent 7 years rebuilding it.

Some of the 210 Swift owners are claiming much higher cruise numbers but we have found out 165mph below 6000' and about 175mph above works well.

That's awesome -- it proves they really knew how to build efficient, comfortable piston airplanes 40, 50 years ago....

:yesnod:
 
That's awesome -- it proves they really knew how to build efficient, comfortable piston airplanes 40, 50 years ago....

:yesnod:


I think the biggest swift that came from a factory had 140 hp? the 210 conversions are just that. lots of STCs available to turn a swift into a kick ass airplane. Not sure i've ever heard of one that was completely stock.
 
I think the biggest swift that came from a factory had 140 hp? the 210 conversions are just that. lots of STCs available to turn a swift into a kick ass airplane. Not sure i've ever heard of one that was completely stock.

High compression, high HP engines hadn't been made common yet, so what's amazing is how much performance could be squeezed from so little power.

The 1947 V tail I used to fly would cruise at 130 MPH on 8-9 gph with a stock E-185.
 
I think the biggest swift that came from a factory had 140 hp? the 210 conversions are just that. lots of STCs available to turn a swift into a kick ass airplane. Not sure i've ever heard of one that was completely stock.

The first Swifts were 85hp. Later they had 125hp then 140hp, same airframe.

There was a fellow in Kissimmee that had an original stock 85hp Swift. Not sure where it is now.
 
It's actually possible to pull back too far and have the tailwheel strike first before it stalls.

Sure, you can stall 1' AGL, and the airplane will drop down on all three points, but 99% of the time it will strike tail first. This airplane was upgraded with the Maule tailwheel some time back, but a glance at the structure supporting the spring will reinforce the need to protect the tail.

So touchdown is accomplished 2-3 MPH before stall. This results in a touchdown in the 35-37 MPH range (not sure how accurate the ASI is at those speeds, and I haven't been looking at it much).

I need to take some more dual to perfect my wheel landings. I think I'll end up preferring them in time as they seem to provide more control throughout the landing run. You're balancing a pin on a bowling ball when flying to 3 point and any litle breeze can mess things up.



:D

Nice write up! Tail draggers keep you humble for sure.

Having the tail touch a 1/2 second before the mains with the wings in full stall is actually a good landing. It should be within 1/2 second, if not try adding just a touch of power on flair. That will bring the tail up just a tad.

IMHO, you need to get rid of the float. I know it's nice as a pilot and it gives you time to set everything up, but cross wind landings can bite you hard with that technique. Floating just allows time for more drift, gusts to hit, and alignment issues.

The other day I say a J3 Cub take off in cross winds that would have kept most nose dragger pilots on the ground. This guy does not fly much and we all though he was crazy until he showed us his skills. His one wheel landings with the right wing dipped were spot on the numbers. Very impressive. If it was luck, he was lucky 10 times in a row! That man put on a cross wind clinic!
 
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IMHO, you need to get rid of the float. I know it's nice as a pilot and it gives you time to set everything up, but cross wind landings can bite you hard with that technique. Floating just allows time for more drift, gusts to hit, and alignment issues.

Yep -- and in such a light airplane there is no time between crab and touchdown. In a heavier airplane you can crab all the way to just before touchdown, kick out the crab, and touch down straight with no drift (it takes a while for a 10 knot crosswind to move a 3400 lb airplane).

In this airplane there will always be drift unless it's addressed (or there is no wind). It weighs just under 800 lbs, but has a 36' wingspan.

I think wheel landings are the only option in any real crosswind.

I also hate pavement.

:D
 
Yep -- and in such a light airplane there is no time between crab and touchdown. In a heavier airplane you can crab all the way to just before touchdown, kick out the crab, and touch down straight with no drift (it takes a while for a 10 knot crosswind to move a 3400 lb airplane).

In this airplane there will always be drift unless it's addressed (or there is no wind). It weighs just under 800 lbs, but has a 36' wingspan.

I think wheel landings are the only option in any real crosswind.

I also hate pavement.

:D

You'll get use to the pavement after you build some more experience in the Chief.

One exercise I use to teach when I instructed tailwheel was have the student set up for a wheel landing (on pavement) and only touch down the left main on the center line and keep it there. Add just enough power to roll the plane along then takeoff again. Next landing (provided winds calm) have them do it again only this time use the right main.

Nice coordination exercise. If they get really good at it have them land on the left main then at runway mid point give a little power, pick it up and set the right main on the center.
 
I have the opposite opinion. In a wheel landing you still have to get the tail on the ground. With a three point landing, the tail is already on the ground.

Really? I find the slow speed 3-point reduces control response, and makes correction more difficult. Of course everything's happening very slowly, but I don't like the feeling of the tail swapping ends with the prop that I've experienced twice now in a crosswind.

I didn't ground loop, but definately felt a swerve that only lots of back pressure until the tailwheel caught seemed to solve.

The first time I made the mistake of landing centerline so I had no good reference on the 150' wide runway. I thought I was landing straight but I had just a bit too much drift correction in and touched down with some drift. I kept the stick back, used the rudders and the winde runway to keep the nose in front of the tail.

The other time was on grass and one of my first landings during transition training. I learned in a hurry that swerving was Not a good thing.
 
You'll get use to the pavement after you build some more experience in the Chief.

One exercise I use to teach when I instructed tailwheel was have the student set up for a wheel landing (on pavement) and only touch down the left main on the center line and keep it there. Add just enough power to roll the plane along then takeoff again. Next landing (provided winds calm) have them do it again only this time use the right main.

Nice coordination exercise. If they get really good at it have them land on the left main then at runway mid point give a little power, pick it up and set the right main on the center.

Now that sounds like a good, challenging exercise. I'll have to try that!
 
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