Checklists and Fuel Tank Changes

[SCCutler]

In AOPA online, saw this:

http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=7172

I always have made it a policy to avoid changing tanks way down low, but think I'll make a concerted effort to settle on my landing tank before descent- a pre-descent checklist?

What say you, wise sages of POA-land?

 

[wsuffa]

In AOPA online, saw this:

http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=7172

I always have made it a policy to avoid changing tanks way down low, but think I'll make a concerted effort to settle on my landing tank before descent- a pre-descent checklist?

What say you, wise sages of POA-land?

I have a "both" position on the fuel selector and POH calls for both on TO and landing.

I remain on both from takeoff through climb, and begin switching tanks during cruise flight. I try and time it so that I will be about "equal" on the tanks when I am 20 minutes out. At that point I go back to both for landing.

Some planes (Malibu?) have a maximum differential limit between L&R fuel load. I don't recall the number, but I think it's on the order of 15 gallons.

I know some folks subscribe to "run one tank until dry", but I don't believe in that because it gives you no "out" if the handle comes off the fuel selector or one fuel line clogs.

 

[BillG]

Damn, I miss the "Both" setting in my Skyhawk. I think that's the only negative thing I've ever had to say about my Tiger...

 

[Ken Ibold]

Damn, I miss the "Both" setting in my Skyhawk. I think that's the only negative thing I've ever had to say about my Tiger...

And I wish the Citabria would allow you to select tanks. It has only "both" and "off."

 

[bbchien]

And I wish the Citabria would allow you to select tanks. It has only "both" and "off."

In my 100 gallon turbocharged Mooney I used to run the totalizer to 0.2 gallons left on the one side, switch at altitude to the other for the last hour's fuel, and descend for the approach. Didn't matter it if was the planned approach. It was time to come down.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

In my 100 gallon turbocharged Mooney I used to run the totalizer to 0.2 gallons left on the one side, switch at altitude to the other for the last hour's fuel, and descend for the approach. Didn't matter it if was the planned approach. It was time to come down.

Wow. If the fuel in the other tank won't deliver for some reason, you're going to be making a deadstick landing.

Oh, that's right, you did that in IMC once, right? You're my hero!

 

[TangoWhiskey]

In AOPA online, saw this:

http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=7172

I always have made it a policy to avoid changing tanks way down low, but think I'll make a concerted effort to settle on my landing tank before descent- a pre-descent checklist?

What say you, wise sages of POA-land?

To quote the article:

The pilot did not visually check the fuel tanks prior to takeoff and could not recall what the fuel gauges indicated during the flight. He thought both auxiliary fuel tanks were full, and both main fuel tanks were almost full.

I think this 12000 hour ATP pilot screwed up by not checking the fuel before or during the flight. He "thought" he had fuel in the auxiliary tanks!? I think he's lucky he made it to 12000 hours if this is his modus operandi.

 

[Len Lanetti]

I always have made it a policy to avoid changing tanks way down low, but think I'll make a concerted effort to settle on my landing tank before descent- a pre-descent checklist?

It is a pain to change tanks in my Mooney. I don't like to do it down low or while other things are going on. I make sure I'm on the tank I want to land on before I start down.

The saving grace is that burning 1 hour out of one side on the Mooney doesn't change the feel in roll much.

Len

 

[TangoWhiskey]

It is a pain to change tanks in my Mooney. I don't like to do it down low or while other things are going on. I make sure I'm on the tank I want to land on before I start down.

Len,

Is yours like the one in our M20E? On the floor between your legs? Can't change it without unbuckling your shoulder strap if you don't have inertial reel harnesses?

We took a 1" OD piece of white PVC, 6" long, and cut a 1" deep channel in one end, so the PVC pipe will slip over the "nut" of the fuel selector, and the "handle" of the fuel selector will stick out through the channel, to give leverage to turn it. Put a PVC "T" on the other end, with PVC glue.

Please forgive the "quick computer art", I'm not a draftsman and this wasn't done with AutoCAD:

Makes a great "handle" that fit over the fuel selector knob. Give it a twist, and you're on the other tank. Reach back and place it back in the seat-back pocket...

 

[Len Lanetti]

Troy,

The fuel selector in my C is identical to what you describe. Dr B has previously mentioned that he made a device similar to yours when he owned a Mooney. I've thought about creating something along those lines myself.

When I first bought the Mooney I had the idea to use a cut down broom stick with a painted arrow at the top the direction of which coinsided with a notch cut in the bottom that would match up to the tapper of the fuel selector. Anyway, that idea is still waiting for me to get a round tuit.

Note that Ed G (another Mooney driver) has previously mentioned that use of such device could be used to accidently over torque the fuel selector (which, of course, would be bad).

My current process is to bend at the waist, reach down and feel for the sharp pointed end of the selector which indicate tank currently in use before and after turning the selector. I've gotten good enough at it in VFR conditions. The process works for me at the moment and is just one more reason I dare not put on any more weight.

:<)

Len

 

[ejensen]

Fly more. Use the manual gear enough and your arm will get long enough.

 

[poadeleted20]

Having read the report, I'm not sure how the Board came to its conclusion, since the report indicates there was fuel in the tank he selected. However, the issue MAY have been that he never tested the feed on that tank until he selected it for landing. That's why, in my Tiger, I always start up on the tank opposite the one I intend to use first, taxi out, and then switch to the desired tank just before run-up. If there's a feed problem on either tank, I'll know about it. If not, I've got two known good tanks, and I'm not afraid of switching at pattern altitude, although I usually switch to the fullest at five miles to fly VFR (normally at 1500 AGL) or approaching the FAF when IFR (again, usually about the same altitude). Given that when I'm up at 11,000 feet my descent may start fifty miles out, I don't select the landing tank at that point, but maybe that's worth reconsidering.

 

[bbchien]

Wow. If the fuel in the other tank won't deliver for some reason, you're going to be making a deadstick landing.

Oh, that's right, you did that in IMC once, right? You're my hero!

Well, the nonstop trip from PSP to DPA in 1993 WAS a HAREBRAINED idea that about fifty of us did for the A/C Spruce Race. I never could stand to run the Mooney for that long...but given the challenge, I decided I was NOT going to switch anything down low. Switched at FL 230 and started down.

More to your point, I had a vac pump failure on the approach to DPA's ILS 1 and did it partial panel. The whole midwest was 200-1 and that's a situation I will NEVER allow again. HAREBRAINED. Lived to tell. 3rd place Trophy in the family room!

As I'm fond of saying, "sheesh".....

 

[gismo]

And I wish the Citabria would allow you to select tanks. It has only "both" and "off."

There is a tank selector in the Citabria but to confuse the pilot's it's called the rudder pedal(s).

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Spike:

50 to 75 miles out, I do a FAATS check. Fuel is the F. Boost pump, landing tank and any other fuel related checks.

In the A-36, you run left or right main. Since mine had tips, I transferred those into the mains on trips. I switched tanks every hour or two. When I ran a tank dry it was only after having run on the other tank previously. The main risk was the transfer not occurring when I made the switch (like a problem with the handle). BTW, the handle was serviced at a minimum at each annual. When I did run a tank dry it was usually pretty high (at least 5,000 feet AGL and usually higher).

One could get the A-36 out of balance with the tip on one side full and empty on the other, but it was still controllable. I can see how the Malibu would be more critical with the longer wing.

The P-Baron is really simple: Left engine on left tanks and right engine on right. I do miss the fuel tank checks--you just put it there, and there is stays 95 useable per side.

I don't think I would transfer tanks low usless there wasn't a choice. Why? If it's working, land on it. Now, if you're low the entire flight--well, I guess that's different.

Dave

 

[John J]

Spike;

When I fly the C33 for flights under one hour I do not switch; For longer flights I switch at altitude near airports or good places to land every hour. IFR I use a "fuel switching chart" that over lays the IFR route chart to give fuel switching points that are near IFR airports incase I have any fuel drawing problems. I do make the last switch before descents. I do not switch low.

John

 

[Graueradler]

I like that tool. I've been trying to figure out how to make something like that for the gas cap on my wife's Honda. If you put it on and twist until the torque limiter clicks, it is very difficult for her to get it off (arthritis).

Thanks for the idea.

Bobby

Len,

Is yours like the one in our M20E? On the floor between your legs? Can't change it without unbuckling your shoulder strap if you don't have inertial reel harnesses?

We took a 1" OD piece of white PVC, 6" long, and cut a 1" deep channel in one end, so the PVC pipe will slip over the "nut" of the fuel selector, and the "handle" of the fuel selector will stick out through the channel, to give leverage to turn it. Put a PVC "T" on the other end, with PVC glue.

Please forgive the "quick computer art", I'm not a draftsman and this wasn't done with AutoCAD:

Makes a great "handle" that fit over the fuel selector knob. Give it a twist, and you're on the other tank. Reach back and place it back in the seat-back pocket...