Check Ride is Friday!

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wannagofishing

Filing Flight Plan
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John D
So, I'm brushing up on some studying (i use that term lightly) and just finished my 3 hrs of check ride prep, which was the last regulation prerequisite other than an oral and practical test sign off by my CFI...

today started out calm but got quite windy, it was 17G24 or so when we wrapped up (now it's smooth and clear, go figure). my steep turns/stalls/ground reference stuff is probably fine, im comfortable with foggles, my xc is planned and thoughtful, and I am close to prepared on the oral stuff. I read the gleim book, reading michael haynes now. I got a 95% on the written.

However, my landings are inconsistent. some of this is a lack of adequate regularity in my downwind/base/final setup, but this is also partly because of a couple new airports and i've been "practicing" soft/short field TO/L.

My soft fields today were crap.. In fact, my regular ones end up softer many times! So, a few questions:

1) Did anyone get away with marginal landings?
2) If I find I'm too fast to execute a particular landing well, during the check ride, should I just go around and try again? Would suck to do that and then mess up, though.
3) Any other thoughts/opinions here?

I'm also working on verbalizing checklists (including departure briefing, climb out and landing checklist).

Thanks,
John
 
If you feel a landing isn't going well, by all means go around. Part of what is being evaluated is your level of judgment. And if you go around properly, the examiner will probably count that as one of the items you have passed.

I accidentally relaxed my grip on the stick and let it move forward about an 1" after I touched down on the soft field landing. The examiner caught it, called it out in no uncertain terms and then accepted the landing as a pass. So yeah, there was some leeway that day...
 
You're absolutely right, I'm not necessarily talking about salvaging a sketchy landing, but rather winds moving me around enough to make me question how soft it will end up... Or something of that nature.. Not an unsafe landing. Another example would be too fast for a short field. ( though runway is plenty sufficient in reality)
 
1. Don't sweat the landings. They do not have to be perfect. They need to be safe. Trust your instructor. If he/she says you're good to go, you are.

2. Verbalize everything. Let the DPE know what you're thinking. "I'm high" "I'm fast here" "Looking for 65kts on final". "I'm not stablized" "I'm going around". When he asks for a maneuver, recite what you're going to do before you start.

I think a big part of the ride - for me anyway - was that the DPE was evaluating my awareness of what was happening, and how I reacted.

Good luck, and don't forget to have fun.
 
wannagofishing said:
1) Did anyone get away with marginal landings?
Click to expand...
I'm sure plenty of folks have, including me way back when. Keep in mind that in order to fail, you must consistently exceed the tolerances, so if you're a little off centerline on one, the others make up for it.

2) If I find I'm too fast to execute a particular landing well, during the check ride, should I just go around and try again?
Click to expand...
Absolutely yes. The examiner is not only looking for performance of the task at hand, but also (and probably most importantly) good judgement. Trying to salvage a landing from a poor start does not show good judgement.

3) Any other thoughts/opinions here?
Click to expand...
Well, since you ask...

1. Relax and enjoy it. Nationwide, about 90% of applicants pass on the first try, so look around and see if you think you’re as good as 9 out of 10 other students. Also, your instructor must maintain a pass rate of at least 80% to get his ticket renewed, so he’s not going to send you up unless he’s pretty darn sure you’ll pass – otherwise, he has to find four other people to pass to make up for you, and that’s not always easy.

2. Go over with your instructor the logbooks of the aircraft you're going to use the day BEFORE the checkride to make sure it's all in order (annual, transponder checks, ELT ops and battery, 100-hour if rented, etc.). If the airplane's paper busts, so do you. Run a sample W&B, too – get the examiner’s weight when you make the appointment. If you weigh 200, and so does the examiner, don’t show up with a C-152 with full tanks and a 350 lb available cabin load – examiners can’t waive max gross weight limits.

3. Relax.

4. Rest up and get a good night's sleep the night before. Don't stay up "cramming."

5. Relax.

6. Read carefully the ENTIRE PTS including all the introductory material. Use the checklist in the front to make sure you take all the stuff you need -- papers and equipment. And the examiner’s fee UP FRONT (too much chance a disgruntled applicant will refuse to pay afterward) in the form demanded by the examiner is a “required document” from a practical, if not FAA, standpoint.

7. Relax.

8. You’re going to make a big mistake somewhere. The examiner knows this will happen, and it doesn’t have to end the ride. What’s important is not whether you make a mistake, but how you deal with it – whether you recover and move on without letting it destroy your flying. Figure out where you are now, how to get to where you want to be, and then do what it takes to get there. That will save your checkride today and your butt later on.

9. Relax.

10. You're going to make some minor mistakes. Correct them yourself in a timely manner "so the outcome of the maneuver is never seriously in doubt" and you'll be OK. If you start to go high on your first steep turn and start a correction as you approach 100 feet high but top out at 110 high while making a smooth correction back to the requested altitude, don't sweat -- nail the next one and you'll pass with "flying colors" (a naval term, actually). If you see the maneuver will exceed parameters and not be smoothly recoverable, tell the examiner and knock it off before you go outside those parameters, and then re-initiate. That shows great sense, if not great skill, and judgement is the most critical item on the checkride.

11. Relax.

12. During the oral, you don’t have to answer from memory anything you’d have time to look up in reality. You never need to memorize and know everything. Categorize material as:

a. Things you must memorize (i.e. emergency procedures, radio calls, airspace, etc).
b. Things you must know or have reasonable understanding of (i.e. interpreting weather codes, non-critical regs).
c. Things you must know about but can look up and will have time to look up on the ground.

(Thanks to Mark Bourdeaux for this categorization.) So if the examiner asks you about currency, it’s OK to open the FAR book to 61.56 and 61.57 and explain them to him. But make sure you know where the answer is without reading the whole FAR/AIM cover-to-cover. On the other hand, for stuff you’d have to know RIGHT NOW (e.g., best glide speed for engine failure, etc.), you’d best not stumble or stutter – know that stuff cold. Also, remember that the examiner will use the areas your knowledge test report says you missed as focus points in the oral, so study them extra thoroughly.

13. Relax.

14. Avoid this conversation:
Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: I have a #2, a mechanical, a red one...
Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: I also have an assortment of pens, and some highlighters...
Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: Yes.
Examiner - Thank you.
One of the hardest things to do when you’re nervous and pumped up is to shut up and answer the question. I've watched people talk themselves into a corner by incorrectly answering a question that was never asked, or by adding an incorrect appendix to the correct answer to the question that was. If the examiner wants more, he'll tell you.

15. Relax

16. Some questions are meant simply to test your knowledge, not your skill, even if they sound otherwise. If the examiner asks how far below the cloud deck you are, he is checking to see if you know the answer is “at least 500 feet,” not how good your depth perception is. He can’t tell any better than you can, and the only way to be sure is to climb up and see when you hit the bases, which for sure he won’t let you do.

17. Relax

18. It’s a test of your flying skill, not your knowledge of PTS minutiae. Make sure you know which maneuver the examiner wants done, and confirm the details if necessary – before you start the maneuver. Does s/he want stalls taken all the way to the break or just to the buffet or “first sign of impending stall”? Is that “spot landing” s/he asked for the “power-off 180-degree accuracy approach and landing” no more than 200 feet beyond the spot or the “short-field approach and landing” which allows use of power but no more than 100 feet beyond the spot?

19. Relax

20. Remember the first rule of Italian driving: "What's behind me is not important." Don't worry about how you did the last maneuver or question. If you didn't do it well enough, the examiner must notify you and terminate the checkride. If you are on the next one, forget the last one because it was good enough to pass. Focus on doing that next maneuver or answering the next question the best you can, because while it can still determine whether you pass or fail, the last one can’t anymore. If you get back to the office and he hasn't said you failed, smile to your friends as you walk in because you just passed.

21. Relax and enjoy your new license.


Ron Levy, ATP, CFI, Veteran of 11 license/rating checkrides, including 4 with FAA inspectors
 
I'd be comfortable knowing how to do all the required landings. Prior to my check ride I was never 100 percent confident on the slip to land and up to that day had a rough time with it. I say be comfortable knowing how to do the landings because if you know the steps to the landings you'll nail them on the day. I concentrated so hard on my check ride that I did my best slip ever.

Just keep going through the steps and airspeeds you want to hit and you'll get the right colored slip at the end of check ride! Good luck
 
John,

My DPE was VERY awesome but made it clear when I did landings he did not like or wanted to give me feedback on. Those included, of course, the shorts and softs. I don't know if that means they were "marginal" but I do know that a lot of pilots on POA say that a good DPE will turn what you thought was a checkride into more of a lecture / lesson in a way. They are not instructing but the detailed feedback he gave me after the taxiback each time was appreciated and valuable.

You'll do fine, good luck.
 
Great advice by Cap'n Ron.

Just remember that the DPE is not there to fail you. They are there to make sure are a safe enough pilot that you aren't going to kill yourself. You've been learning and practicing the same maneuvers for months and it sounds like you have taken your training seriously. Your CFI has signed-off on your instruction and is confident that you will pass. Now you just have to make it official.

I learned a few things on my first oral exam / check ride. The examiner took the time to explain wing loading to me after I incorrectly quoted the wing loads for the Cessna 150 that was used for the example in the oral exam prep book instead of the Warrior that I was flying. She showed me that the compass around a VOR is exactly 10nm and gave me a little practical advice for planning cross-countries. The main job of your DPE is to make sure you will be a safe private pilot and he/she will not try to trap you with a trick question. If you don't know something, admit it to them and offer to look it up in the FAR.

Try to relax before your flight. It is your time to show off how far you have come since your first flight lesson. Verbalize everything that you do and take as much time as you need to set up for each maneuver. If the PTS allows you 100 feet of deviation from an altitude, make sure you are perfectly level at that altitude before initiating a maneuver. If you are 30 feet high when starting a maneuver, then you only have 70 feet of allowable deviation before you bust altitude. If you do go outside of tolerances on a maneuver, do not panic. The examiner may ask you to repeat the procedure, or he/she may chose to ignore it if it was a minor deviation and the procedure was safely executed. If it is a gusty day, the DPE will factor that into their evaluation. Make sure you understand exactly what the examiner wants to see before you start a maneuver and do not be surprised if they ask you to demonstrate the maneuvers in a different order than you are used to. The examiner may, for example, have you transition from slow flight directly into a power-off stall.

You've probably heard the expression that the PPL is a license to learn. You will never stop learning. The examiner will verify that your learning is on pace and then allow you to continue your aviation education.

Good luck and let us all know how it goes!
 
The question every DPE has in his/her mind is, "If I pass this guy, is he going to kill himself?"
Yes, there are PTS tasks that need to be within a certain range and so on... But his final concern is your judgement and should he turn you loose on the public (and yourself)...
The DPE and your instructor understand that they are giving you a license to learn... Their question is, will you survive it...

denny-o
 
wannagofishing said:
1) Did anyone get away with marginal landings?
2) If I find I'm too fast to execute a particular landing well, during the check ride, should I just go around and try again? Would suck to do that and then mess up, though.
3) Any other thoughts/opinions here?
Click to expand...

#1 Yes, and #2 yes, but...

... but DPEs may have varying tolerance. My DPE was known to give one chance to screw up a landing, but only one. So, at one of landings I was too high and called a go-around while we were about 150 ft up. It was obvious that I could not make it. However, this used up the fault. Then, the DPE saw me missing my touchdown zone for a short field landing and told me to "demonstrate" the go-around even before I started the inevitable floating, so the failed landing did not count. I succeded on the second try. So in reality I screwed 2 landings, not just 1.

With some of them you have to be perfect though. I was lucky.
 
Two fingers is also about 10nm right above the 2nd joints across. And just to clarify...the radius is about 10nm so the diameter is just a teensy bit over 20. I'd like to know about any little tricks though. I noticed my CFI would just slide the plotter to a VOR to guess the heading....looked like an easier way than trying to find my pencil mark.

MN_Flyer said:
She showed me that the compass around a VOR is exactly 10nm and gave me a little practical advice for planning cross-countries.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Like everyone said, RELAX. Most DPE's are very accomplished aviators and THEY WANT YOU TO PASS !!

My Tips:
1. Be 100% confident throughout the whole entire checkride, from The initial handshake till the signing of the temp cert, Sit up straight, speak clearly and confidently, when you answer questions never use "I believe".

2. On the oral or Flight portion don't be afraid to look up a few things, or ask the DPE to repeat a question.

3. Getting in the Airplane verbalize everything, brief everything.
Before Take off I told the DPE this:
"I have completed all the before takeoff checklist's and the aircraft is ready for takeoff. I will be flying the whole flight, in the event of an emergency I will fly the aircraft. In case of an engine failure with RWY remaining I will land the plane on the RWY. In the case of engine failure without runway remaining below Pattern altitude I will proceed straight ahead +or - 30 degrees of heading... Any questions?"

3. Know your aircraft, use it to impress. As we walked out to the aircraft I told the DPE this is a 1976 Cessna 172 L model..... engine info, fuel info, memory V Speeds... etc

In terms of studying before hand All I did was review Weather minimums per airspace(I would recite on the treadmill, in study hall, While math teacher was babbling away, while driving, while sleeping, in the shower) That is one thing I would know cold.

Remember the DPE wants you to pass! So does every other pilot in the Country. We are all rooting for you!
 
I kinda disagree with you on the vocalizing everything. I didn't talk much except to answer his questions, because if you say something wrong he is going to pry until he finds out how much you really know. #14 on Rons list.
 
DavidWhite said:
I kinda disagree with you on the vocalizing everything. I didn't talk much except to answer his questions, because if you say something wrong he is going to pry until he finds out how much you really know. #14 on Rons list.
Click to expand...

By vocalize everything I dont mean this:

"I am lowering the flaps because the flaps allow me to make a steeper approach, the flaps are electrically powered and would fail if the electricity did"

I mean this:

"I am lowering Flaps"

You need to vocalize that kind of stuff because as you move on you will learn about something called CRM where vocalizing the important stuff is well....important. So I still stand and say vocalize everything!
 
wannagofishing said:
1) Did anyone get away with marginal landings?
2) If I find I'm too fast to execute a particular landing well, during the check ride, should I just go around and try again? Would suck to do that and then mess up, though.
Click to expand...

Well, um I hate to admit it, but on my last landing of my check ride, I was asked to do a short field landing and I did no less than two go-arounds. Third time was the charm. Passed but was p*ssed at my performance at the end.
 
loudbagel said:
By vocalize everything I dont mean this:

"I am lowering the flaps because the flaps allow me to make a steeper approach, the flaps are electrically powered and would fail if the electricity did"

I mean this:

"I am lowering Flaps"

You need to vocalize that kind of stuff because as you move on you will learn about something called CRM where vocalizing the important stuff is well....important. So I still stand and say vocalize everything!
Click to expand...


I can't say CRM has been very integral in any of the flying I've done.
 
wannagofishing said:
So, I'm brushing up on some studying (i use that term lightly) and just finished my 3 hrs of check ride prep, which was the last regulation prerequisite other than an oral and practical test sign off by my CFI...

today started out calm but got quite windy, it was 17G24 or so when we wrapped up (now it's smooth and clear, go figure). my steep turns/stalls/ground reference stuff is probably fine, im comfortable with foggles, my xc is planned and thoughtful, and I am close to prepared on the oral stuff. I read the gleim book, reading michael haynes now. I got a 95% on the written.

However, my landings are inconsistent. some of this is a lack of adequate regularity in my downwind/base/final setup, but this is also partly because of a couple new airports and i've been "practicing" soft/short field TO/L.

My soft fields today were crap.. In fact, my regular ones end up softer many times! So, a few questions:

1) Did anyone get away with marginal landings?
2) If I find I'm too fast to execute a particular landing well, during the check ride, should I just go around and try again? Would suck to do that and then mess up, though.
3) Any other thoughts/opinions here?

I'm also working on verbalizing checklists (including departure briefing, climb out and landing checklist).

Thanks,
John
Click to expand...


Sounds like you have all week to prepare and it sounds like you have identified landings as an issue. SO, I assume you are signed off to solo, so why not go out and shoot some landings this week? Practice makes perfect!

Best of luck! You'll do fine. The main thing they want to see is that you are safe to carry passengers.
 
Moved the check ride up to today... I passed! What an awesome
Feeling, will post details soon.
 
wannagofishing said:
Moved the check ride up to today... I passed! What an awesome
Feeling, will post details soon.
Click to expand...

Can't wait to hear!

My checkride is approaching fast. I did not schedule it yet, but I completed all of my requirements, have a good 92% on my written, so now just need to do a prep. One thing I am not very confident about is the actual plane I will be using. The C152 that I fly solo is a bit too touchy, and rudder trim is not well adjusted. Plus local DPE hates that aircraft. I will have to check out a C172 and practice in it for a bit. And my CFI's aircraft is a Warrior II. He signed me off to solo it, but wouldn't rent it out to anyone. Go figure...

I think I have same fears as you do. My landings are not the best ones out there. I get to the ground safely, without bouncing, but lately, I can't seem to stop floating. It could be the plane, I don't know. The C152 I solo in, I typically float for a bit. CFI's Warrior II landings are decent to good. And I am a little bit confused about talking to FSS. So once I clear out these concerns, time to schedule! Hoping to get my ticket before mid March.
 
Words cannot express the feeling of both relief and satisfaction.
 
Nice Job! I know what you mean about what a relief passing is. Now you can go back to flying for fun!
 
my examiner was really easy, though everyone told me he was the hard one. maybe i was prepared? maybe he was not feeling like giving me a hard time? anyway, i stumbled very briefly on the oral on one or two things. first was remembering the 3rd item req'd when i have my private (medical).. which I remembered in the end. also, i answered incorrectly about the aft CG (think my brain was tired) and used the effect of fore CG as my explanation of the outcome. he was patient, questioned my thinking (steering me in the right direction) and I got it right after a second. he looked at my performance charts I calculated, but didnt look REAL hard at my xc.

Then, he pretty much told me what we were gonna do. we left the airport, which was only my 2-3rd time out of that airport which is like a bowl runway in between two ridges... a little hairy. winds were right down the runway at 06 so no biggie there. then I turned on course.

before i even got to my first checkpoint (15nm out), he had me show him where we were on the sectional. i did. then he said to divert to dalton airport (in NW Georgia). I was allowed the GPS) We did some soft field and short field TO and L and we went north to another area to do some maneuvers. We did power on and off stalls (which were about perfect, if I say so myself!) after we first did turns around a point. TAAP was the only ground reference piece I did (other than fly the patterns). On that, I did accidentally gain 20ft more than tolerance and I very quickly adjusted. He never said anything. I told him "correcting" and that was it.

We then did 45deg turns and I almost nailed it except my heading bug wasn't moving with the DG! good thing I picked a visual b/c the DG was also precessing quite badly.

Then we did hood time and it was incredibly easy. The "unusual" attitudes were closer to usual ;-). I think the worst of the 2/3 versions was like a 20deg bank and a 5deg nose down. A walk in the park.

Then he said, ok, your engine died. What do you do. Establish glide, attempt restart, there's a field.. no, there's a better one. "OK, which way are you going to enter it" well, the winds favoring this direction, but I'll have to make that call when I get closer. "Good enough, go around"

Then he picked a town about 12nm north and told me to find it (no VORs or GPS). I did that with little difficulty and then he said to head back and I could use the GPS. I entered a 45deg downwind, called everything, etc and we were down. I taxied in, shut it down and about peed my pants with excitement and unbelief that I was gonna pass.

Even though my instructors GRILLED (correctly so, I believe) me on announcing everything I did on the preflight and landing/climb checklists, he intentionally told me in the beginning we didnt need to play that game... in other words, that we both knew he knew what to do so no need for charades, but that it's important that with real passengers I do exactly those things. He did watch me to see if I was using a list, I'm sure, but I didnt need to tell him how to use his seatbelt, for example. (For all you about to do your checkride, please do not expect that, plan on briefing everything... you cant talk too much but you can talk too little). What he did appreciate was my telling him specifically how I was going to execute the short/soft field stuff prior to entering the runway (or on downwind).

All in all, I am freaking stoked! I might just go fly right now!

PS Did I mention I was a pilot?
 
i forgot to mention a lot of the oral.. it was stuff like light signals, airspaces, cloud clearance, maintenance books, AROW, hypoxia, night illusions, etc. last of all was weather. he pulled a metar and taf and had me read them. then he pulled a few of the wx charts and asked me what certain things meant (warm front, cold front). like I said, simple, easy, the stuff you should know anyway if you're going to fly. nothing unfair at all.
 
wannagofishing said:
All in all, I am freaking stoked! I might just go fly right now!
Click to expand...
Congratulations, and it sounded like you did better than I did on my checkride. Now try to rope some passengers in. :)
 
I got to take my brother up today for 30 min around the town.. He loved it. I'm based out of Chattanooga. KCHA

It's really fun to take other people up and hear the reactions.
 
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