Cessna 175 Opinions

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by OkieFlyer, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. OkieFlyer

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    Okay folks, you may have read through my Skymaster thread, now I want to shift gears a bit and talk about a little bit different plane. I have an opportunity (if you see it that way) to get my hands on a Cessna 175 for what I think is a good price. I do not have all the details on the particular aircraft yet, but I believe it has a mid time engine, and the mechanic says it's a solid plane. Until I get all the details in a day or two, I thought I'd get some oppinions on the type.

    Here's what I know:

    The geared down GO300 engine has gotten a bit of a reputation as not being very reliable. Some feel the reputation is as a result of pilots having a tendancy to run it like a regular O300 engine at 2300-2500 RPM instead of the recommended 2900-3100 RPM, which causes cylinders to run hot.

    Speed is between a 172 and 182 of the same vintage, but on par with a newer 172 with more HP.

    About 1000 lbs. useful load.

    9-10 GPH

    Good short field capability.

    Engine parts can be hard to find.

    Only 1200 hr. TBO (because of the higher RPM I guess?)


    That's about all I know about 'em. What do ya think?
     
  2. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    My low opinion of them comes from a student who owned one previously. With a different engine - fine plane. If it's got the geared engine, be prepared to spend some money over your course of ownership, and possibly make an emergency landing or two.

    Ryan
     
  3. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think your as-built budget projection should incude an engine upgrade at some point, maybe when it becomes ready at TBO.
     
  4. OkieFlyer

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    That may be the wise thing to do Wayne.
     
  5. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I did a fair amount of research into 175s a while back when I was a newly minted PPL looking for my own ride (I ended up not buying because I decided I didn't really need a plane at the time, not because I gave up on 175s).

    They are really pretty good airplanes with a few potential pitfalls. Because of the age of the aircraft and the engine/reputation, the prices are very reasonable, plus you get a much better useful load than a typical 172. But here's the catch - do you actually plan to own it for a long time or build time and hope to sell it in the not too distant future? If you are plan to use it a stepping stone, keep in mind that it won't be that easy to turn around and sell - the demand just isn't that high. If you are looking for a good 4-seater that has a useful load in between a 172 and 182 for long-term ownership, then you will probably be pretty happy (provided you do your due diligence and buy one that hasn't been treated like crap).

    The issues with the engines are due to its geared nature - you can't treat it like most people treat their 172s and PA28s. You don't go slamming the throttle around. Pilots who have experience behind radial engines do just fine in 175s....but then, radials are geared engines.

    The problem in buying one is knowing how the previous owner(s) treated the engine. If you find one for sale that was recently overhauled and the owner seems to treat it well, then you will probably be fine (again, providing you treat the engine accordingly). One way of doing this is to observe the owner flying the plane for a bit when you do a pre-buy test flight - you will probably be able to tell then whether they have been hard on the engine.
     
  6. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

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    Waiting for Tom Downey to chime in here as, I recall, he is a real advocate for the 175 - and I think he knows a le-e-etle bit about engines.

    My understanding is that the 175 is a good package, if run properly.
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    They are a fine old aircraft that will preform midway between a 172 and a 180/2, there are 3 versions of them. all will give book figures when operated IAW the POH.

    All parts for the GO-300 are available now, except the oil sumps, it takes all the same accessories as the 0-300.

    Things to look for:
    corrosion in the spar carry thru, excessive back lash in the G- Box, and all the typical things of the 100 series cessnas.

    They have 40 degree manual flaps, old style gyros, seat ADs,

    the 175s are vary upgradable the engine can be up graded to the 0-360/180 and 200, plus the Cont. 0-360/220 and the Franklin 220. and some with constant speed props, all on STCs

    the 210 heavy nose strut fork, and larger wheels, plus a double puck cleveland brake assemblies. 1 piece wind screens, 180 gear legs, are nice off field stuff.

    The one shown below has proven it can carry more, and land and take off shorter than a M7 250 Maule. it has the 0-360/180, 210 gear, 850X6:00 wheels, stall cuff, and extended baggage, and long range tanks.
     

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  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    There is a big fallacy in that statement.

    It was the old radial engine pilots that had never seen RPMs settings higher than 2400 in their entire lives that ruined a lot of G-0300 engines, because they would not run the G-0300 at its book numbers.

    It is by Cessna's own admission that the GO-300-D powered C-175 and the P172-(powermatic) were the quietest cabins they built.
     
  9. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I see what you're talking about - I was more referring to the practice of modern day non-radial drivers who yank the power completely off and let the prop drive the engine.
     
  10. OkieFlyer

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    Thanks guys. I have a friend who has owned 2 or 3 of these over the years, and he really likes them. He has told me that the bottom end on these is nearly bulletproof, and he has run well over the TBO on some of his engines. He highly recommended moving to Titan cylinders. All in all, they seem like a great buy, provided that the previous owner treated it right. I'm one of those guys that doesn't necessarily look past things that have acquired a bad reputation because many times, the reputation is not deserved and can provide you with years of fun if you take care of 'em, and you can get 'em cheap because everyone else gets scared off. I'm thinking this might be one of those things. I'm an optimist :)
     
  11. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Like I said, as long as you don't have any delusions that you are going to be able to turn around and sell it quickly, then I think you can get a bargain on a great plane.
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    That really doesn't harm the GO-0300,as long as the pressure created on the gears is constant. What does damage the Gear box is long periods of idling, where every power impulse is felt as a separate hammering blow to the gears.

    In 1961(the B model) they used a C/S prop, the old pilots would pull the prop down to 2500 RPM and advance the throttle to 25 Hq, just as they did in the 1960 C-175 and the early 182, this caused cracking of the cylinders and fretting of the case center seam, and lots of other problems with the engine. thus the reputation of the engine, but those operators that ran the engine IAW the POH never saw those problems.
     
  13. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    The best of the bunch is a 1963 P-172, average useful load 1140, GO-0-300-D @175 horse power, C/S prop, @ 84 inches, rear window, slant tail, manual flaps, 52 gal tanks, and 2500# gross weight.

    top speed 146, normal cruise 134, with a range of 6.4 hours.

    You don't see them for sale very often, few were made and those who have them love them.
     
  14. OkieFlyer

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    Went and looked at the 175 this evening. Pretty sharp looking airplane. GO300 has about 400 hrs on it. Radios and instruments are pretty basic. The local mechanic has done the last few annuals, no major issues. I can probably get it for around 20K, maybe less. Something to think about.
     
  15. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep, that's what I'm talking about.....you have an airplane that is more capable than a 172 that you can pick up for 152 prices.
     
  16. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

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    If it's all legit, that would have to be the most plane for the least money...
     
  17. BiffJ

    BiffJ Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I looked at a pretty good number of 175's prior to buying the one I got. The engine is the big issue with all of them as noted and while it can be a great engine for those who take care of it, it can also be a headache. As for the plane there is no question its a good one. The plane I ended up with is a 1960 A model with the swept tail (dang I wanted a straight tail so I could put a tailwheel on it), 40 deg flaps, and a lycoming conversion with a constant speed prop. It appears that my plane was one of those used to develop the STC for the conversion of the engine and also for the fiberglass cowling. It has a Bush STOL kit on it that really helps at the slow end. It flys like a 172, has 52 gallons instead of (41 but only 42 are useable by the book), cruise is about 125 mph burning about 9gph down here in the sludge (2500ft) carrying 2350 gross. Useful load in this particular plane is 850 lb and you'll find some wide variation in empty weights out there. This one is heavy from all the added stuff like STOL kit, constant speed prop etc. All in all I'd say its a great plane and worth having....even with the geared engine. Just make sure to have someone who knows the engines look things over. I saw a wide variation in backlash on the gearboxes and only one of them was in very good shape.

    Frank
     
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  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    How to check backlash in a GO-300 G/box.

    place the prop in a horizontal position, place a tape measure at the tip of the prop to the ground, bump the prop forward, till it wants to turn the crankshaft, mark the tape, bump the prop backwards until it wants to turn the crank again. note the difference, if it is much over 3/16th of an inch it is pretty much worn out.
     
  19. OkieFlyer

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    Thanks a million. That was going to be my next question.
     
  20. OkieFlyer

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    Well, here it is, almost 2 years since I started this thread. I don't usually post on old threads, but it is mine, and I'm back on the hunt for, you guessed it, a C175.

    My wife and I had a kid since my last post, which kind of put a hamper on my hopes of owning an airplane. Well, nearly two years later I'm in the market again.

    Fortunately, I'm a little more informed about the type this time, having flown one recently. One of the candidates for purchase is a 1958 175 at my local field. It is actually owned by the chairman of the C175 owners group. Very nice flying machine. The GO-300, geared six banger at 3200 rpm and the big 84" prop turning at 2400 is smooth as silk. In fact, when I pushed the throttle to the firewall on takeoff, I thought it was a lame duck because it's so quiet. I'm used to lycoming 4 cyl. engines, which are loud compared to this continental 6 cyl. I looked down at the rmp gauge and made sure the throttle wasn't hung up, and when I looked up, I was passed rotation speed already. I pulled her up off the ground and pitched for 90mph (Vy is 80) and we were getting about 700 fpm with nearly full fuel and me at 290 lbs and Herb at 265 lbs. I pitched for 80 mph briefly, and we were close to 1000 fpm, but the owner prefers to climb out a little faster to keep things cool if he's not in a hurry. Evidence that he doesn't mistreat his engine. We flew for about 2 hours, and averaged about 133-135 mph both ways. It's nice and quiet in cruise at about 3000 rpm, and flies pretty straight. Landings are fun using 40 deg of manually actuated flaps and point the nose at the ground. It get's off the ground pretty quick and lands pretty short with little effort. I really enjoyed the plane, and the performance is head and shoulders above a 172, and useful load is close to 1000 lb. This plane has a mid time engine at 685 hrs. (1200 TBO) and good compressions, no corrosion, all AD's complied with, good paint, and no other issues. Priced at 25K.

    The other candidate is a 1962 175 C model located in KY. The difference in the C model is that it uses a C/S prop and cowl flaps, and has a 100 lb. higher gross wight. The higher gross weight is appealing to me as a fat guy. It too has a mid time engine at 639 hrs, and seems to be a solid according to what the owner told me over the phone. Of course a phone conversation doesn't mean a whole lot, however, the gentleman sure seems like a very, very nice older fella. Perhaps a trip to Kentucky is in my future. The only draw back seems to be less than stellar paint. but I've never been much of a stickler on paint. It's listed at $21,900 on Barnstormers.

    Anywho. Just thought I'd share my latest endeavors.

    -Andrew-
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  21. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Buying locally is worth a lot in terms of depth of understanding of what you're buying, time to look at the plane, logs and records and ask questions, ease of accessing present owners MX personnel. The guys who head the owner clubs are typically savvy about the special issues faced by the fleet, and their planes are usually nice examples. The other plane could be nice as well, but you'll spend more money looking at it and closing the deal than with the local plane so those costs should be factored into your decision. Do either of the planes have any modern avionics that contribute to their value?

     
  22. OkieFlyer

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    your first statement makes a whole lot of sense. I've known the owner for a couple of years now. I like him a whole lot, he does indeed know a great deal about the type, and seems to keep his plane working and looking nice. I feel good about buying from him, and I think most of the dudes that hang around the airport would agree as he is well liked and respected. I'm good friends with the mechanic that works on it, and he would continue to do the maintenance. So yes, that is worth a lot to me.

    Both airplanes have basic avionics. The local one has better King radios, and a fairly old GPS. In fact, I'm not even sure the maps can be updated on that model anymore. Neither have anything noteworthy as far as avionics.

    Thanks
     
  23. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    A lot more than you realize, that aircraft is not going to suffer the " First annual syndrome "

    What oil has the prior owner used?

    Does this aircraft have an oil filter?
     
  24. OkieFlyer

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    Tom, I'm not sure what type oil he uses. It does have a spin-on type oil filter adapter.

    It also has new battery, generator converted to alternator, mogas stc, good used king radios recently installed, new starter and starter cable, annualed last month.

    Also available are tons of spare parts. He claims his parts cache is worth about 10K and will let me have all of it for an extra 5K. However, some of it is stuff I don't really want (eg. three sets of wheel pants). I was planning on trying to cut a deal on some of the stuff that would be handy to have laying around. I like the idea of having back-ups, but don't really want to mess with junk either. Perhaps some of you guys could help me decide what would be good to keep.
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Get an inventory of what he has and post the list, lets see what he has.
     
  26. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you find a J-3 or Cessna 140 in the pile, let me know. We flew my 180 to Weatherford to pick up a 414 last month, almost directly over your place. Wish I had known, would have stopped for lunch on the way home.
     
  27. OkieFlyer

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    I know he has at several old jugs, one or two complete exhaust systems, 3 sets of pants, a couple different sets of wing tips, some starters, probably 2 of every engine accessory, complete wing leveler system, some instrumentation. Some of it is useable as is, some of it servicable, some of it junk.

    Wayne, not sure if I mentioned it before, but I do most of my flying out of Chickasha (KCHK) about 30 miles west of my home in Lindsay, OK. That's where the plane in question is located. It just so happens that there is a nice looking little 140 for sale at Chickasha. N2535V can be seen here: http://chickashawings.com/AircraftRental.html. It's advertised as a rental for tail wheel instruction, but it rarely, if ever actually gets used as a trainer. In fact, It doesn't fly much at all. The owner just goes out and flies it for kicks on occasion, and to get the oil moving around. The owner is a commercial pilot with thousands of hours, has flown everything under the sun, is a good mechanic, and I believe he used to do maintenance on Hueys in the military. I would say, that the 140 has been in good hands, and treated well. I bet he'd probably take 15K.
     
  28. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I might drop by and check it out. My home-town Elk City friend Jim Hall has been a dentist in Chikshay since the crust cooled, I should probably have lunch with him too.

     
  29. AdamZ

    AdamZ Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was looking at a 175 at one time and from everything I heard a cache of spare parts are critical.
     
  30. OkieFlyer

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    Cool. The owner's name is Jerry Witt. He's usually hangin' around the airport somewhere at any given time, cup of coffee and a cig in hand, tellin' whoppers. I forgot you were from Elk City. We talked about that a while back. If you ever decide you're going to stop in there, I'd be glad to buy you some lunch if I'm available. I think there is a fly-in at KCHK in May.
     
  31. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

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    It's just a 172 with a geared 6-cylinder engine. Well maintained and run properly, I'd have no qualms...
     
  32. Tom-D

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    Why,, the hard to get stuff are items are stuff the owner would never use.

    the engine uses the same items as the 0-300-D, the gear box isn't some thing the owner would change or rebuild.

    Airframe = typical cessna sheet skins and rivets.
    Engine …. things that are different, oil sump, cases, crank, gear box, prop. all other engine parts inter-change with C-145/0-300.
     
  33. OkieFlyer

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    Hmm...It seems that mysterious forces are at work. As I mentioned a few posts ago, I was in the market for an airplane 2 nearly two years ago. Just as I was about ready to fork over some dough, my wife got pregnant and we decided to wait a while on the plane. Well, I haven't even been on this forum since then until 2 days ago, and I am indeed ready to shell out some jack for an airplane. Guess what? My wife found out today that she's pregnant again!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy to have another kiddo, and we planned to do so in a few months anyway, but I can't help but wonder if the surprise is a sign of some kind telling me not to buy a plane.

    Or perhaps, it means that life is short and full of surprises, hurry up and buy a plane already! :) :)
     
  34. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I can draw a picture for you :D

    Congrats. I think it means buy the plane before it's too late. :D
     
  35. OkieFlyer

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    I know HOW it happend Rusty, don't need a picture. LOL

    Thanks.
     
  36. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Buy the aircraft, make that your favorite hobby. :)
     
  37. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh, OK I thought you were attributing it to "mysterious forces"
     
  38. AdamZ

    AdamZ Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I agree.

    Good question Tom. I got that from frequenting the 175 owner's board and the 175 forum on the Cessna board. The owners seemed to always be looking for parts and letting each other know when a 175 was parted out one or two even advised me to buy a spare engine. I recall one guy having to pay a pretty penny to get some bushing machined that he could not get anymore.

    You obviously need to stay off this board:wink2: Congrats.
     
  39. OkieFlyer

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    Haha! No that part is no mystery, however, the fact that said act proved fruitful while using anti-baby making measures, the moment I'm ready once more to buy a plane, seems mysterious.
     
  40. rick owens

    rick owens Filing Flight Plan

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