Career Path Choices

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

En-Route
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
3,182
Location
Central AR
Display Name
Display name:
ARFlyer
So, I started totaling up my logbook today and found that I'm within 200 hours of applying to the airlines, which for me is about 4 months of flying.

I have been thinking about which regional or whether I want to apply to my semi dream place.

My semi-dream place is Cape Air. I grew up watching Wings and I think the whole idea of small airline life is nice. So my dilemma is whether to apply to Cape or the first regional to take me.

Cape would give me single pilot IFR once I reach IFR ATP mins of 1500. Until then I would be SIC of a 402, which is useless time besides being used for ATP minimums. I would also want to hold New England/Montana bases, so I could get experience flying in s*** weather and winter operations. I would at least stay a minimum of two years before applying to the airlines. One year being "mandatory" if they give me an ATP.

On the flip side I can apply to the airlines at 1000 hours, because I qualify for R-ATP. So I would have a 2 year leg up on new hires, at the point when I would have transferred from Cape. Also I would be earning multi turbine time the second I started training.

I hate making hard choices. I would love to do both.
 
Dunno sounds like the choice might be made for you. Apply to both if you get an offer from both only then do you have a dilemma.
 
Chase the lifestyle not the tin.

I've heard very good things about Cape Air (9k), there are folks who just stay there too which says quite a bit.

Most of the other regionals (minus maybe Horizon) I've heard nothing but bad things.


I didn't realize people cared about the "restricted ATP", I also haven't heard of anyone with 1,000tt getting on with a major airline. Even if the employment page lists 1000TT R-ATP as the mins, you can bet the average applicant to a major has probably triple those hours and a real ATP to boot.
 
Last edited:
My first CFI worked for cape air in the 90s. He is still with them, so it must be a good job.
 
Since you're considering applying to the regionals, I assume you ultimately want to fly for a major someday. There's not a lot of reason to be a regional pilot otherwise. :)

In my experience, there are two schools of thought with this. The more prevalent attitude is that seniority is everything, so the goal is to get yourself to a major in the absolute shortest time possible. If that's what you're trying to do, you might as well bite the bullet and get on at a regional now. Because as you said, after a two year stint at Cape Air, you'll just be back at a regional anyway.

The second school of thought is that the journey is every bit as important as the destination. I tend to agree with this, and if I were in your shoes, I'd go to Cape Air if that's what you really want to do. The pilots I know there are happy, and the flying looks like a ton of fun.

I'm currently sitting at a legacy, and have 30+ years to go until retirement. I love what I do. The money is good, I don't take work home with me, and I've got so much friggin' free time I'm currently trying to figure out what the hell to do with myself. But here's the thing: when I'm retired and sitting around drinking scotch with my buddies, all the good stories from my flying career - the truly good ones - are most likely not going to come from my airline days. They're going to come from what I did at the fringes of the industry. I was never a regional pilot, and that fact likely set my career back a few years, but I've also got a slew of memories doing and seeing s***t that simply does not exist at any level of the airline track. It probably also cost me a million+ in earning potential at the top end, something that's always mentioned by the Riddle->Regional->Major purists. But how do you put a price on the experiences? :dunno:

As you mentioned, single pilot IFR is some of the most demanding and rewarding flying you can do. Cape Air will turn you into a far better pilot than some regional, but at the end of the day, the majors don't care much about pure piloting ability - they need someone that can manage a flight deck in a procedurally precise manner. If you go to Cape Air, you'd be doing it for yourself, and only you can decide whether the experience is worth the detour. :)
 
Last edited:
TommyG said:
My first CFI worked for cape air in the 90s. He is still with them, so it must be a good job.
Click to expand...

Everyone I have talked to has had nothing but good things to say, even with the new union.
 
A few of my friends are with Freight Runners Express. If you want winter ops it'd be right up your alley. From what I hear the pay is pretty decent too.
 
James331 said:
I also haven't heard of anyone with 1,000tt getting on with a major airline. Even if the employment page lists 1000TT R-ATP as the mins, you can bet the average applicant to a major has probably triple those hours and a real ATP to boot.
Click to expand...

A "real ATP"? Hasn't an R-ATP passed the same written, oral and flight test as a "real ATP"? Would 500 more hours in the right seat of a C-150 make him a "real ATP"?

:rolleyes:
 
LDJones said:
A "real ATP"? Hasn't an R-ATP passed the same written, oral and flight test as a "real ATP"? Would 500 more hours in the right seat of a C-150 make him a "real ATP"?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep, the only difference between my R-ATP and a normal ATP is 500 hours.
 
LDJones said:
A "real ATP"? Hasn't an R-ATP passed the same written, oral and flight test as a "real ATP"? Would 500 more hours in the right seat of a C-150 make him a "real ATP"?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well, perhaps he will do that 500hrs in a 172 or 182? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Lots of good advice here. Kayoh pretty much nailed it.

I'll reiterate one point he made. Seniority is life when it comes to an airline career, and you can't ever have enough of it.

If a major airline is the goal, a regional where you'll fly 900 hours a year in turbine equipment with a quick upgrade is probably the better choice than Cape Air. PIC turbine is the most valuable time to have when it comes to applying at the majors.

FWIW, I flew a couple of the Cape Air 402s back in the mid '80's when they were owned by Aero Coach, so if you go that route, look out for my butt prints! ;)
 
ARFlyer said:
Yep, the only difference between my R-ATP and a normal ATP is 500 hours.
Click to expand...

Let's just keep lowering the bar eh?

Think there's a few more differences too, but you should know that.
 
In the end, it's all what you want to do. It will not be until your 65th birthday until you know if you made the right choices.

The common choice would be to go to the first RJ regional that will hire you. As you have found out, there are many paths. You may end up finding out that you like doing something else. Keep your mind and your options open. Being a professional pilot does not always mean flying at a legacy airline.
 
James331 said:
Let's just keep lowering the bar eh?

Think there's a few more differences too, but you should know that.
Click to expand...

True...a four year degree from an aviation university usually accompanies the -R...not required for the "real ATP". Who's lowered the bar?? :dunno:
 
A 4 year degree isn't going to help you in the cockpit like additional experience in the cockpit.
 
Just get a job flying. Nothing makes job offers come in like being employed.

As a side note, I get a lot of unsolicited resumes. I look at them before I file them in the round file and the ones that stand out to me are the ones with flight time.
 
James331 said:
Let's just keep lowering the bar eh?

Think there's a few more differences too, but you should know that.
Click to expand...

R-ATP is only different in the hours required, the age (21), and the SIC restriction. The test is the same as the normal ATP in both knowledge and practical.

I just want to get hired somewhere and build time so I can have better options later down the road.

My friends think I'm crazy for wanting to go fly in northern cweather and busy airspace. They all want to go south and enjoy the sun in Texas and/or Florida. I think it will make me a better pilot.
 
Those are rather large differences between the two.


Any who, no doubt working in the north will make you a better pilot, shoot for Cape Air, I've heard nothing but good things.
 
I have flown on Cape Air and in fact when I retire I have an open invitation to come and fly for them part time. Yep, the right seat on a 402 is useless to the over all plan BUT it shouldn't be long to get to the left seat. I am nearing the end of my career and am more than ready to let you young pups have my seat. Love the flying, the people, hate rules and regulations and management and the FAA. It sours you after a while. The regionals pay a lot better at the top than they used to and growth in the industry is looking better for the future. My company has about 16000 resumes on file and we have hired less than 100 in the last few years. If we get a good bump in the retirement there will be quite a few that hang it up.
Do NOT listen to the guys telling you that a degree is not as good as flight time. Get Both. My company will not even look at you unless you have a four year degree...doesn't matter what it is in. I recommend a degree in something that you can make a living with (i.e. French Medieval Art is NOT) because your first many years can be very very slim.
Good luck.
PS. I am in the top 110 at UPS, without a college degree...how...just flew my butt off, had a great wife and met the right people at the right time. IOW, luck
 
I hear people say that sitting right seat in a 402 is useless time. Well, if it's a part 135 IFR pax carrying operation, then there's nohing useless about that time. You're a required crew member, even if it's a single pilot airplane. Surem you're getting SIC time, but it still goes towards total time. Plus too, you'll be getting lots of good IFR experience!
 
kurtsnyder said:
I hear people say that sitting right seat in a 402 is useless time. Well, if it's a part 135 IFR pax carrying operation, then there's nohing useless about that time. You're a required crew member, even if it's a single pilot airplane. Sure you're getting SIC time, but it still goes towards total time. Plus too, you'll be getting lots of good IFR experience!
Click to expand...


There is something to say on that. I never was able to sit up front and watch other pilots fly approaches to the minimums, that is until I started doing it myself. I would have had a lot more confidence when I started flying single pilot IFR if I had been able to watch others do it first.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top