Cardinal RG vs Cardinal 177B

[JGSJW]

I am brand new here on your site but by chance the other dayI saw a two year old discussion on your forum regarding Cardinal RG's verses fixed gear Cardinals . If that subject is still of interstI may be able to help.
I am an old man now in my late seventies with Parkinsons but back in the 1970s I was a vibrant
Commercial pilot, delivering employeesto different citieson adaily basis. I owned and used a 1976 177B fixed gear and a 1977 RG with retracts and a full panel of the period and flew a lot of IFR in them plus some other birds but these were my favorites. I put in close to 3,000 hours in them in the seventies......ANY QUESTIONS?

 

[Shopshirt]

Hi JGSJW, Welcome to POA! I've often heard issues with the gear retract system with the C210's but I know on a couple of previous threads people were interested in the retract maintenance requirements.
How maintenance intensive was the gear on the Cardinal RG?

 

[Pilawt]

I always enjoyed Cardinals. A few minutes after my PPL checkride was done in 1968 I got checked out in a then-brand-new 150-hp Cardinal.

My first passenger-carrying trips were in those early Cardinals. 26 years later, in 1994, I joined a flying club at KWHP that had a '76 177B -- well-worn, but still flew well. I understand somebody ran it out of fuel at night a few years later and wrecked it, but survived.

 

[rbridges]

I am brand new here on your site but by chance the other dayI saw a two year old discussion on your forum regarding Cardinal RG's verses fixed gear Cardinals . If that subject is still of interstI may be able to help.
I am an old man now in my late seventies with Parkinsons but back in the 1970s I was a vibrant
Commercial pilot, delivering employeesto different citieson adaily basis. I owned and used a 1976 177B fixed gear and a 1977 RG with retracts and a full panel of the period and flew a lot of IFR in them plus some other birds but these were my favorites. I put in close to 3,000 hours in them in the seventies......ANY QUESTIONS?

welcome to POA. Glad to see you're still staying involved with the discussions.

 

[JGSJW]

Ihad one gear failure in four yearsevery time which turned out pretty. Good. A hydro lif line failed so that on approach to Boise I got two greens instead of threeflyover thematlowaltitudeandthety. The mains managed to lock in place but the nose gear wouldn't lock. Boise tower me buzz them. And shined spot ightsupatmygear which looked ok to them. The back up gear system was frstrating because it was simply AA manual pump system connected to the same hydrolic line. At least Mooney provided a seperate cable crank down that worked every time. So finaly I thumped the mains on hard to the runway and my green nose light came on so that waslovkednow.the good news was even better since the foam truck that would have foamed the runway and cost me $2000.00 dollars rolled over by turning too fast...smile. So, it was poor engineering on that but I never had another Halmark moment with that plane. It took me through a lot faithfully.

 

[azure]

Ihad one gear failure in four yearsevery time which turned out pretty. Good. A hydro lif line failed so that on approach to Boise I got two greens instead of threeflyover thematlowaltitudeandthety. The mains managed to lock in place but the nose gear wouldn't lock. Boise tower me buzz them. And shined spot ightsupatmygear which looked ok to them. The back up gear system was frstrating because it was simply AA manual pump system connected to the same hydrolic line. At least Mooney provided a seperate cable crank down that worked every time. So finaly I thumped the mains on hard to the runway and my green nose light came on so that waslovkednow.the good news was even better since the foam truck that would have foamed the runway and cost me $2000.00 dollars rolled over by turning too fast...smile. So, it was poor engineering on that but I never had another Halmark moment with that plane. It took me through a lot faithfully.

This was in a Cardinal? My '76RG has only one green indicator, and as I understand it the system is wired so that all three must be locked down for the bulb to get power. I've never heard of a Cardinal with a separate indicator for each leg. But maybe I've missed that we've already thread drifted and this was another type.

 

[luvflyin]

I owned a 78 B, actually still do own some of it. Damn I miss it. I look around for someone who doesn't know what they have and will sell their's for a song but ain't holding my breath. I'd love to have an RG. I've researched the hell out of them. Like Centurions, gear up problems are usually a result of poor maintenance. There weren't many made, they only had a 10 year run. I stick needles in my "Cessna Management" doll every now and then for F'ing up the original design. They never did recover from the "bad rep" they got from being underpowered with the original 150hp engine and the "tweakiness" of the stabilator and laminar flow wing. There were a lot of accidents from people going "gee, its just a 172 without struts" and went out and flung the yoke around they did in other Cessnas. Many a bent prop and firewall. They reworked the stabilator and made the wing fatter and more forgiving the next year, but it was to late. The Reputation had been made.

 

[Challenged]

Welcome! I've always liked the 177. A few years ago I was excited to hear about the NGP, since it reminded me of an updated 177 so much. I guess nothing ever came out of that project: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_NGP

 

[JGSJW]

• Regarding the green nose light wiring they were always making midstream changes. For example Both of my Cardinals were calibrated in mph instead of knots per hour. Go figure

 

[JGSJW]

1. Real IFR. W I am having trouble his up for home town the session at your me pannel IFR an am trying to show both of myCardinals. But I a just thought f a weakness did n'gt have toin their attitude indicators which must have been bought at arumage sale. I got very good at partial panel IfR. It's enhappenedonan FAA commercial checkride . The whole region was deal IFR and he had me pick him up at his hometown Jiddah which only hadan ADF approach. So he gets in the pLane and we take off IFR. We lunch in and the A/I dies and rolls over. So now he can' bust the ride because w e would have to do a partial panel ADF anyway or fly him to another town with an ILS and leave him there. So we did the whole ride partial panel and I took him home

 

[JGSJW]

Cardinal RG. Versus 177B fixed gear
If you are making money with the plane get the RG.I know that comparing the quoted book speeds doesn't look like much difference but convert the speeds to mph from knots and 150 knots becomes almost 175 mph. Time is money. I flew to airports above 5,000 ft so would stow and go and cruise climb to altitude .My average leg was 200 statute miles. There was little advantage to prolonged climb outs. The RG will be hitting it's stride between 7500 to 9500 ASL. While faster birds usually need to cruise above 18,000 and you will need oxygen.
Another thing the book figures are for a fully loaded plane gas and people at a certain altitude and temperature. In real life you are alone in the plane with half gas. I realize that I am taking liberties here but I did this for nine years.
Now if the plane is for pleasure get the fixed gear Cardinal understanding that mine was the 180 hp with variable pitch prop and the good wing and stabilator.theplane will have lower price tag and lower insurance and lower maintenance. I know the retracts are sexy but a are sexy but only at the gas pumps. It's all about the money amigo.