Carbon Cub from Cubcrafters

TheTraveler said:
Has anyone built one of these? Care to share your experience?

http://www.cubcrafters.com/carboncubex
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No, but I saw a couple last summer at a Cub fly-in. Very nice airplanes. One of the pilots in our flight department used to work as an A&P/AI at Cub Crafters and he has nothing but good to say about the airplane and the company.
 
VERY capable aircraft in the hands of the right pilot.
 
N801BH said:
http://www.cubcrafters.com/carboncubex/pricing



75 grand,, and you still have to build it....:rolleyes:

And NO motor /prop /spinner for that price....:yikes:
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Aha! So that's what's missing. I couldn't add it up. $75k it looked for the kit, but I see them for sale at well over $100k. I saw the engine in the kit photo, so I just assumed (yeah, I know...) that the engine was included.
 
N801BH said:
http://www.cubcrafters.com/carboncubex/pricing



75 grand,, and you still have to build it....:rolleyes:

And NO motor /prop /spinner for that price....:yikes:
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But since new built ones sell for $200K+, you could save at least $50K on a comparably equipped one by building it. That's still a lot of money for a Cub to me. Few pilots will come close to utilizing its full performance potential. Sorta like the $450K Extras that pilots will buy for the occasional loop and roll.
 
They are expensive for what they are, you'd be better off with a real PA18-180, for that price you could get one on amphibs.

If you want a kit, get a PA18 project.
 
I can go just about anywhere a Carbon Cub can go, and carry 4 people..... in my Zenith 801....... for about 1/4 the cost of 200,000......:rolleyes:
 
James331 said:
VERY capable aircraft in the hands of the right pilot.
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And unless you are a light weight pilot, you will only be carrying light weight passengers, all the ones I have been around are pretty limited on useful load.

Brian
 
You can buy every part to build a PA-18-180 except a new data tag.
but,
When you have the data tag, they sell well over $250,000.
 
N801BH said:
WOW....:hairraise:....:eek:.....:yikes:...
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because they are part 135 certifiable. but they better have all the upgrades too.

beefed up rear spar, vortex generators, 4" wider fuselage extended baggage, beefed up fuselage with "X" members over head, new tanks, enlarged instrument panel, 2300 pound gross weight increase, 31" tires, borer prop, cleveland wheels, Bush wheel 10" tail wheel. and the list goes on.
 
I will build eventually, and I like this plane. Just not quite sure about the cost vs. reward. And this is not a tomorrow, next week, next month, or even next year, so time is not of the essence. Useful load doesn't look bad at around 1900 lbs. I do not want an LSA or the LSA version of this.

Aside from the pricing and opinion on if it's worth-it chatter, if anyone knows anyone who's built one, I'd like to chat them up a bit. Looking at the kit it does seem pretty simple.
 
TheTraveler said:
I will build eventually, and I like this plane. Just not quite sure about the cost vs. reward. And this is not a tomorrow, next week, next month, or even next year, so time is not of the essence. Useful load doesn't look bad at around 1900 lbs. I do not want an LSA or the LSA version of this.

Aside from the pricing and opinion on if it's worth-it chatter, if anyone knows anyone who's built one, I'd like to chat them up a bit. Looking at the kit it does seem pretty simple.
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:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Ben...if you don't mind sharing, I know your engine is a little unorthodox for an airplane. If someone were to buy "your" engine complete, what would be the price, how much does it weigh, and what kind of power are you making?
 
TheTraveler said:
Ben...if you don't mind sharing, I know your engine is a little unorthodox for an airplane. If someone were to buy "your" engine complete, what would be the price, how much does it weigh, and what kind of power are you making?
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Motor is basically a 840 HP NASCAR cup engine,detuned to around 400 right now.. About 2.5 times recommended HP for the 801..:hairraise::yikes:

Weight is 437 lbs, complete firewall forward... For comparison a Lyc 0-360 /180 hp with a constant speed prop weighs in at 456 lbs complete.

Price should be in the 20,000 -22,000 range....

I estimate TBO to be in the 3000 range.
 

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more pics......
 

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It is a beautiful kit and I like the seating. But it is going to cost over $125,000 for just the kit, engine, avionics and worthwhile options. But you get a kit with great instructions and everything figured out for you. Another option is the Javeron Super Cub kit. This is an exact copy of the Super Cub with the 4" wider fuselage and all of the Alaskan mods. 2300# gross weight 1100# empty. One of these would be in the $100,000 range with a pumped up O-320 or O-360. I have a Backcountry Super Cub I built a few years ago. Javron was doing all of their parts at the time. Mine is 1250# empty with a 2400# gross and performs great with a O-320 putting out about 185hp. Did it for about $90,000 in 2011.
 

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The Carbon Cub achieved what every Cub builder strives for, a lighter airplane. The reality of the market position of the Carbon Cub is that it's primarily used for LSA. You can buy or build one that meets the requirements and allows a 420# useful load. Limited utility? Sure, but a 900# Cub w/ 180hp? How cool is that??? If a guy chooses to build it in the E-AB category it grosses at 1865# and has an average useful of about 1000# even with big tires and other popular equipment. That stacks up favorably with ANY super cub variant including Pipers and Javrons but the bottom line is the Carbon Cub will be at least 200# lighter. Probably closer to 300#. That's a big deal. I've been close to writing a check for a CC kit a number of times but the unknown upcoming changes to the 3rd class medical has made me hold off. I intend to build another Cub and I'd like to not need an FAA medical. Until I know what regulatory changes are coming I can't make a good decision about my next Cub.
 
yakdriver said:
It is a beautiful kit and I like the seating. But it is going to cost over $125,000 for just the kit, engine, avionics and worthwhile options. But you get a kit with great instructions and everything figured out for you. Another option is the Javeron Super Cub kit. This is an exact copy of the Super Cub with the 4" wider fuselage and all of the Alaskan mods. 2300# gross weight 1100# empty. One of these would be in the $100,000 range with a pumped up O-320 or O-360. I have a Backcountry Super Cub I built a few years ago. Javron was doing all of their parts at the time. Mine is 1250# empty with a 2400# gross and performs great with a O-320 putting out about 185hp. Did it for about $90,000 in 2011.
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Great, thanks for the info. Did you like the build? How much time did you have in it? Anything not go the way you anticipated, or anything you didn't like?
 
TheTraveler said:
Great, thanks for the info. Did you like the build? How much time did you have in it? Anything not go the way you anticipated, or anything you didn't like?
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Can't speak to the CC kit, but building an airplane is an incredibly satisfying and rewarding personal journey. The satisfaction of flying a machine you built can't be bought. Things never go exactly as planned, but everything can be figured out. It's a process, enjoy the ride.
 
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TheTraveler said:
Great, thanks for the info. Did you like the build? How much time did you have in it? Anything not go the way you anticipated, or anything you didn't like?
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The Backcountry Cub kit is not for a beginner as the instructions are terrible and you have to figure out all the hardware, systems and firewall forward. All of the parts were really nice with superb welding on the fuselage and tailfeathers. The Javron kit is much better and the guy who designed the Carbon Cub re designed the wing ribs and other structures allowing around 150# less weight. The Carbon Cub is not as rugged as a stock Super Cub. Built as an LSA it is about useless with such a small useful load. Yes it will handle more but the first thing the FAA and insurance company will do if in an accident is a weight and balance. Don
 
N801BH said:
I can go just about anywhere a Carbon Cub can go, and carry 4 people..... in my Zenith 801....... for about 1/4 the cost of 200,000......:rolleyes:
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Ben, puleeeze. There never was an RTF Zenith for $50k. You're going for about 1/2 the cost, not 1/4. How do you even calculate your W+B? :wink2:
 
Just added up the cost of a CC with the VFR panel and options like extended baggage, 3" extended gear, long range tanks and Oregon Aero seats. $145,540.00. Now you have to build it and paint it ($10,000). The one I built is for sale for $149,000 turnkey. Don
 
Tom-D said:
You can buy every part to build a PA-18-180 except a new data tag.
but,
When you have the data tag, they sell well over $250,000.
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A PA18 on wheels? :rofl:

They may list for a quarter MILLION, but they won't SELL for that.

You can get a nice A185F or 550ed U206 Amphib for less than that price, and that's a real airplane that you can work and carry more than one pax.
 
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Cubcrafters keeps building Top Cubs, Aviat keeps building Huskies. Both are well north of $200K in basic form. Heck, a factory built Carbon Cub is over $200K with typical options. Those sell, too. Somebody out there is paying those prices!
 
Cub Crafters Top Cub Starts at $239,990 before any options and they are always around a year out for you to get one. Most go out the door for over $275,000. Carbon Cubs are $189,000 with no options and are more than a year out. A new Husky will run over $300,000 and they also have a waiting list. So people are paying well over $250,000 for Cubs. Don
 
zaitcev said:
Ben, puleeeze. There never was an RTF Zenith for $50k. You're going for about 1/2 the cost, not 1/4. How do you even calculate your W+B? :wink2:
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Mine cost less then 50 grand to build.. COMPLETE.!!!!!!!:yes:

My weight and balance is right in the sweet spot.. All it took is 38 lbs of lead in the tail... If I had to do it over I would have placed the 42 lb Optima Red top battery back there... Ya live and learn..;)
 
Stewartb said:
Cubcrafters keeps building Top Cubs, Aviat keeps building Huskies. Both are well north of $200K in basic form. Heck, a factory built Carbon Cub is over $200K with typical options. Those sell, too. Somebody out there is paying those prices!
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Which shows some folks have more $$ than brains, just like the folks who bought new 162 fly catchers.

But as for a PA18 on wheels for a quarter Mil plus, forgedaboutit!
 
If a guy has the money and that's what he wants to spend it on? Good for him. Go for it, I say.
 
Stewartb said:
If a guy has the money and that's what he wants to spend it on? Good for him. Go for it, I say.
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Nah they should grow a pair and buy something cool and dangerous not a make believe cool little cub.
 
Stewartb said:
If a guy has the money and that's what he wants to spend it on? Good for him. Go for it, I say.
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If it makes you happy yeah, it just cooks my noodle when people pay SOO much for so little.

A carbon cub is cool, no doubt, for a quarter mil worth. no way, not when you can get a nice real PA18 for less than 100k.
 
yakdriver said:
The Backcountry Cub kit is not for a beginner as the instructions are terrible and you have to figure out all the hardware, systems and firewall forward. All of the parts were really nice with superb welding on the fuselage and tailfeathers. The Javron kit is much better and the guy who designed the Carbon Cub re designed the wing ribs and other structures allowing around 150# less weight. The Carbon Cub is not as rugged as a stock Super Cub. Built as an LSA it is about useless with such a small useful load. Yes it will handle more but the first thing the FAA and insurance company will do if in an accident is a weight and balance. Don
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I would not want the LSA version, I"ll stick with the 3rd class medical.

The build actually sounds fun to me. I don't want a mess, but I don't want it over simplified, either. Part of the reason for looking at a build is for the enjoyment of building. And no doubt they look like very nice planes, but looking at the totals, I don't think it's going to make sense.
 
My take has always been that if the guy has the money, it's his to spend on what and how he pleases. Just because I may see something that would suit my needs differently doesn't mean that it would suit his own. If he's got less power and less of a useful load but he's in love with his toy, good for him.
 
TheTraveler said:
My take has always been that if the guy has the money, it's his to spend on what and how he pleases. Just because I may see something that would suit my needs differently doesn't mean that it would suit his own. If he's got less power and less of a useful load but he's in love with his toy, good for him.
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Anyone in aviation who complains about the value someone else gets for their money needs to look in the mirror. All the non-aviators laugh at us paying $5/gallon for gas and $50-100k for a 50 year old airplane with an electric blue interior and avionics from 1980.

The reality is that nothing about personal aviation can be justified on a cost basis. But if you've got the $$ and the desire...
 
My flying machine was less then 2 AMUs and flies for free on the wind. I'll criticize the snot out of other pilots. That said any cub, even a 1/4 million one, is better then the vanilla GA planes most people fly.
 
ClimbnSink said:
My flying machine was less then 2 AMUs and flies for free on the wind. I'll criticize the snot out of other pilots. That said any cub, even a 1/4 million one, is better then the vanilla GA planes most people fly.
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Less than 2AMUs, take it no AAD?
 
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