Car leasing

denverpilot said:
Was thinking about your numbers. So what you're saying is you're paying about the same as gas users minus the taxes on the fuel.
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No, not at all. The Federal gas tax rate is 18.4 cents per gallon, the Wisconsin tax rate is 30.9 cents per gallon for a total of 49.3 cents per gallon. Since a charge is worth about a half gallon of gas and costs me a buck, what you're saying would be true if we were spending $2.493 on gas - In reality, we're about 40 cents a gallon higher than that right now even though gas is as cheap as it's been in a LONG time.

jesse said:
Kent, curious, what are you paying for electricity?
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A bit shy of 14 cents per kilowatt hour (13.945, to be exact).

Ted DuPuis said:
I'm thinking I need to put up a solar bank and windmill.
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My brother is actually putting up a solar bank for his house. He figures it'll cost him about 17 cents per kilowatt hour in the long term if it lasts exactly the 20 years it's guaranteed for and no longer. He lives in California and pays less than I do for electricity (What???) - About 13 cents/kWh. He gets lots of sun, too. But, I bet in 20 years their rates will be WAY higher than 17 cents/kWh, so hopefully for him they get high enough to make up for the opportunity cost of paying for his next 20 years' worth of juice up front by buying the solar system.

Henning said:
I was wondering the same thing because my buddy manages way better than that in his MiEV, but he gets electricity at industrial rates for having an EV, and he charges off peak through the night.
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I can set the car to charge at off-peak hours... However, I'm on a constant rate so there are no off-peak hours. I charge when I charge.

I do have the option of switching from my current 13.945c/kWh rate to one of the following:

* 9c/kWh off-peak and 21c/kWh on-peak
* 5c/kWh off-peak and 28c/kWh on-peak
(With either of the above, I can choose my peak period to be 7a-7p, 8a-8p, 9a-9p, or 10a-10p. Based on our daily schedule, I'd probably go with the 8a-8p peak period.)

There is another plan that's more complicated, but it is only better than the 2nd one above during part of the year and part of the day, and off-peak rates are the same, so not really worth considering.

I'd have to look at a graph of my daily usage to see whether it'd be worth changing to one of the other plans. However, I'd have to *never* charge my car during on-peak hours because at 21c/kWh I might as well just burn gas. Each 7c/kWh is roughly equivalent to $1.00/gallon.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
No, not at all. The Federal gas tax rate is 18.4 cents per gallon, the Wisconsin tax rate is 30.9 cents per gallon for a total of 49.3 cents per gallon. Since a charge is worth about a half gallon of gas and costs me a buck, what you're saying would be true if we were spending $2.493 on gas - In reality, we're about 40 cents a gallon higher than that right now even though gas is as cheap as it's been in a LONG time.



A bit shy of 14 cents per kilowatt hour (13.945, to be exact).



My brother is actually putting up a solar bank for his house. He figures it'll cost him about 17 cents per kilowatt hour in the long term if it lasts exactly the 20 years it's guaranteed for and no longer. He lives in California and pays less than I do for electricity (What???) - About 13 cents/kWh. He gets lots of sun, too. But, I bet in 20 years their rates will be WAY higher than 17 cents/kWh, so hopefully for him they get high enough to make up for the opportunity cost of paying for his next 20 years' worth of juice up front by buying the solar system.



I can set the car to charge at off-peak hours... However, I'm on a constant rate so there are no off-peak hours. I charge when I charge.

I do have the option of switching from my current 13.945c/kWh rate to one of the following:

* 9c/kWh off-peak and 21c/kWh on-peak
* 5c/kWh off-peak and 28c/kWh on-peak
(With either of the above, I can choose my peak period to be 7a-7p, 8a-8p, 9a-9p, or 10a-10p. Based on our daily schedule, I'd probably go with the 8a-8p peak period.)

There is another plan that's more complicated, but it is only better than the 2nd one above during part of the year and part of the day, and off-peak rates are the same, so not really worth considering.

I'd have to look at a graph of my daily usage to see whether it'd be worth changing to one of the other plans. However, I'd have to *never* charge my car during on-peak hours because at 21c/kWh I might as well just burn gas. Each 7c/kWh is roughly equivalent to $1.00/gallon.
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Ok, that explains it. You have to see how the energy management works for you. For my buddy it works really well to go with the split billing because nobody is home during peak time so the have a timed thermostat to minimize consumption during peak, plus he has a solar system that handles the majority of the idle load. The power company was offering a hell of a deal for EV owners on Off Peak and he would charge the car and top off the battery bank for the house inverter then. His big meter use time is morning and evening with 5 of them in the house and his electric bill runs around $60 in the winter and $75 in the summer (gas heat as well as solar and solar hot water) with the A/C running.
 
Interesting numbers with the solar, Kent. The other factor for me is rooftop solar reduces AC bills (we saw that with the pool this summer), which helps the ROI. My general thought is it's probably a 15 year break even point for me, but I also like the technology and want to support it if I can find a reasonable way to do so.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Interesting numbers with the solar, Kent. The other factor for me is rooftop solar reduces AC bills (we saw that with the pool this summer), which helps the ROI. My general thought is it's probably a 15 year break even point for me, but I also like the technology and want to support it if I can find a reasonable way to do so.
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Agreed. My house is pretty well situated for solar, my front roof faces southwest and doesn't have any tall trees within about 45º of it. I could probably do quite well in the summer with solar and the on/off peak plan.

My only hesitation with the on/off peak plan would be the dinner hour and all the appliance usage that goes along with that - Turning on the electric cooktop, opening the fridge a bunch and getting it to kick on, my wife having the TV and all the lights in the house on when she cooks, etc. :rofl: If I could keep up with my own dinner-hour demand for most of the year with the solar, I'd be all over the on/off peak plan.
 
DJTorrente said:
So does Amtrak, in a certain manner of speaking. We'll see how many they sell if/when the government subsidies go away.
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Meh... My car made sense for me without the tax break. That's just a bonus.

I think OPEC is hoping to pump out enough oil to put a dent in R&D on plug-in cars, and they may well succeed. But we'll all get to enjoy cheap gas for a while.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Agreed. My house is pretty well situated for solar, my front roof faces southwest and doesn't have any tall trees within about 45º of it. I could probably do quite well in the summer with solar and the on/off peak plan.

My only hesitation with the on/off peak plan would be the dinner hour and all the appliance usage that goes along with that - Turning on the electric cooktop, opening the fridge a bunch and getting it to kick on, my wife having the TV and all the lights in the house on when she cooks, etc. :rofl: If I could keep up with my own dinner-hour demand for most of the year with the solar, I'd be all over the on/off peak plan.
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This is where you need a monitoring device on you electric, so you can collect the usage data you need to make a good decision, I bet there are some pretty cheap app based devices these days.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think OPEC is hoping to pump out enough oil to put a dent in R&D on plug-in cars, and they may well succeed. But we'll all get to enjoy cheap gas for a while.
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I think they're more trying to put a dent in the shale oil/gas development boom that's been going on in the US since that requires prices to be in the range we've had the past few years to be worthwhile. Doubt if they give a damn much about plug-in cars, which are a much smaller threat to them than US independence on oil and gas.
 
Henning said:
He was out of business in another year anyway. The only way to survive long term in the car business is by being morally scrupulous and upstanding. By providing a benefit to the locals, not taking advantage of them or alienating them.
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Friend of mine works for the local family owned Ford Dealership and has been selling cars and trucks for them for many years.... and make a pretty damm good living at it... He is not your typical car sales type... real down to earth... He is also pretty knowledgeable on the products and the financing terms and rates that are available....

He has a Rolodex full of repeat customers and always gets referrals from the same.

Getting back to the lease thing as he says "leasing a car is another way of saying you can't afford it!"
 
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