Car Geeks: Was This Ball Joint Defective?

[RJM62]

I just talked on the phone to the mechanic who installed it a couple of weeks ago, and he's assuming responsibility either way. He's an honorable guy with a good reputation and an A+ BBB rating, and he does stand behind his work. I'm just curious what people think, because it looks to me like mechanic error (not banging the pin in all the way).

Again, he's going to take care of it either way, first thing in the morning, plus pay for the tow; so I'm not trying to crucify him. The day I'm perfect, I'll hold others to that standard. I'm just curious what others think.

-Rich

 

[ron22]

From the looks of the picture I would guess error on assembly.
Like it was not seated all the way when they put the locking bolt in since the bolt is still there.

Glad to here he is taking care of you right.

 

[docmirror]

I still see the pin at the top. I also see the pinch bolt in the housing. Looks like the important parts are still there. There a recess on the pin which has to line up with the driven pinch bolt holding it into the hub hole.

 

[RJM62]

That's what I was thinking. It looks like his guy didn't fully insert it.

This mechanic, Bob, is a very good and decent individual. The first volunteer fireman who showed up told the tow truck driver who the mechanic was, and the driver wouldn't even take my money. He's that sure that Bob will pay for it.

Luckily, this happened only half a mile from my house and about five miles from the mechanic's shop. The vollies showed up immediately, made sure no one was hurt, called the tow truck, and offered to drive me home. It made me feel even better that I'm generous with my contributions to the fire department. They're really a good bunch of people.

-Rich

 

[docmirror]

At the risk of damaging someones reputation, this kind of mistake is pretty inexcusable.

Front brakes, suspension and steering are the flight controls of the car world. No tolerance for mistakes.

 

[Vaflier]

While it does look like improper assembly it is possible that the joint is defective. The stud on it could be undersized or it could have sheared the lower part that the pinch bolt holds onto. Without seeing it in person and taking a few measurements it is not possible to be sure. I have seen such parts which were defective.

 

[RJM62]

At the risk of damaging someones reputation, this kind of mistake is pretty inexcusable.

Front brakes, suspension and steering are the flight controls of the car world. No tolerance for mistakes.

I agree, and I probably should be angrier about it -- and I would if Bob hadn't already been so hard on himself on the phone. He sounded genuinely anguished about it. By all accounts this is a guy who really cares about what he does. People come from all over the county to get work done at his garage.

It actually was one of his guys who did the work, so I imagine that fellow will have hell to pay tomorrow. Bob was pretty angry over the phone: "What if you'd been on the highway! You could have been killed!" So he's certainly not minimizing.

Also, truth be told, I have to blame myself a bit. The steering didn't feel quite right the last couple of days -- like it was binding a bit. I really should have brought it back in. But I've been busy with a project for work this week and kept putting it off. So I have to accept my own share of the responsibility, as well.

-Rich

 

[docmirror]

OK, mistakes happen. At this point you now need a tie rod end, maybe a tie rod, lower ball joint, maybe new upper, and I'd have a look at the rest of the front suspension for bent stuff after that's done.

The brake line looks stretched, so that may have to be repl too, which means a front brake bleed.

 

[RJM62]

OK, mistakes happen. At this point you now need a tie rod end, maybe a tie rod, lower ball joint, maybe new upper, and I'd have a look at the rest of the front suspension for bent stuff after that's done.

The brake line looks stretched, so that may have to be repl too, which means a front brake bleed.

We shall know tomorrow. He's going to try to get it done by the end of the day, but he admits that getting the parts might be a problem. He hadn't actually seen it yet when I was talking to him.

-Rich

 

[Sac Arrow]

I really can't tell from the photo if it was an assembly problem or if there was a material failure but the fact it was serviced then came apart would suggest the former. Did he replace the ball joint, or just reassemble it?

I was walking along the sidewalk a few months ago and a car coming down the street made an abrupt skidding turn to the right and smashed in to the side of a parked SUV. He was only going about 20 mph or so but both vehicles were totaled. He was okay. His tie rod separated from the steering arm, causing the wheel to whip sideways and pivot the car about the locked wheel. He said the shop had just serviced his suspension a week prior.

 

[MAKG1]

From the looks of the picture I would guess error on assembly.
Like it was not seated all the way when they put the locking bolt in since the bolt is still there.

Glad to here he is taking care of you right.

Either that, or the balljoint was undersized or the clamp enlarged. Still mechanic error, as you can FEEL when the bolt bottoms and the balljoint isn't seated. The most likely error is that he forgot to tighten the pinch bolt. A giveaway would be if the other side was loose, too.

Mechanics are people too, and when they make life threatening errors, they get very, very bothered.

I had a shop that forgot to tighten tie rod sleeve bolts after an alignment. The manager was genuinely horrified, but I still won't go back there. I don't want to risk my life because the manager was a nice guy. Frankly, I don't think you should, either.

A good mechanic will CHECK HIS WORK when he's done. Checking a balljoint is stupid-easy when the vehicle is already on the lift, and takes no more than a couple of seconds.

Were you moving when this happened? If so, it's likely he owes you a rim and hubcap as well, plus you'll be quite lucky if there isn't body damage, particularly to the front bumper.

 

[RJM62]

The problem turned out to be the pinch bolt, but of course other things were damaged when that failed. He went to work early to check it out, replaced the damaged parts, realigned the front end, and had the car ready for me by 8:45 this morning. He also sent a car to pick me up, picked up the bill for the towing, and apologized profusely.

Sac, he had replaced the ball joints, including the bolt of course, so it actually seems to have been a part failure. He miked the bolt this morning and the shank had a slightly smaller diameter than what the spec calls for, which can be catastrophic in that particular assembly.

The parts place he'd been dealing with (until today) switched from Moog parts to some other brand that he admitted he's not crazy about at all, and this incident convinced him to switch to another supplier (Napa) that still sells Moog. He got the parts needed for today's work locally because he knew I needed the car back, which I'm sure cost him because the local auto parts guy is a crook has somewhat higher prices than most.

So all in all, I'm satisfied. Yeah, I guess you could say that he should have miked the bolt before installing it; but seriously, who does that with a new part? Also, he took responsibility and bent over backwards to make things right, so I'll deal with him again. The day I'm perfect, I'll hold others to that standard. And again, I kinda suspected something wasn't right the last couple of days, so I'm partly to blame, as well.

By the way, I would have posted this update earlier, but I caught a good deal on a chest of drawers for my guest cell room at a yard sale on the way back. Early Depression (or late Obama, one or the other). Very nice condition. The lady wanted $20.00, but I got $5.00 off because I noticed it had earwigs from the lawn that had crawled up into it. $2.00 of insecticide and an hour in the sun took care of that problem, so my final cost was $17.00. Not bad at all.

-Rich

 

[MAKG1]

The bolt FAILED?

You can feel when a bolt is yielding.

That's an excuse.

 

[RJM62]

The bolt FAILED?

You can feel when a bolt is yielding.

That's an excuse.

Well, I used the word failed. He didn't. He just told me the diameter was too small.

I'm pretty handy with a wrench, but I've never done that particular job, so I'll defer to you on it. But I did dry to shake the wheel when the replacement was first done, and it did feel okay to me. I guess up on a lift it would be different.

In the future, though, I think I'm going to tell any mechanic doing front-end work for me that I want to inspect the car while it's still on the lift before accepting it.

-Rich

 

[docmirror]

I took another look at the pic, and it's hard to see, but the pinch bolt does appear to be a smaller diameter than the hole, but of course, without an up close one could never tell.

But still, in most applications this pinch bolt has to be pushed or driven in hard. The recess shoulder on the pin aligns with the cross hole for the pinch bolt and the two mate is a way that the pin cannot come down even if the nut is completely gone.

If the pinch bolt slid in loose and the mech just tightened it, that is no excuse. Also, the pinch bolt is a grade 8 in most cases, and not just some grade 5 bolt out of the Ace hardware bin. My Focus uses a Torx head grade 8 both that is an interference fit.

I guess the failure mode makes sense, but still not suitable. I hope they did the rest of the bits I mentioned as well.

 

[CJones]

Sometimes those bolts just get worn over time. If he reused the old bolt, it definitely could be worn to the point of allowing the pin to slide past the gap. Before tearing it apart, there could have been enough crud in the joint to prevent the pin from sliding out. Once you break all the crud away to replace it, it could slide out.

From the pic, it looks like an old bolt, but it's difficult to tell for sure.