Cap 232???

Nightflyer172

Nightflyer172

Pre-Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Fortworth TX
Display Name
Display name:
Seth Jackson
Here is another thread on another airplane. I have done alot of research on this airplane and found the people that build it. The only problem is, who builds these airplanes??? I try to find some for sale on google but nothing will come up. Where in the world do pilots get these??




cap232_f-gtoj.jpg
 
CAP is a French company, but I think went out of business a few years ago.
 
The market for serious aerobatic aircraft (as opposed to sport planes that can do some light acro) is very small and is supported, with just a couple of exceptions by very small boutique builders. Aircraft like the CAP, Giles, Zivko Edge and others don't have a factory support option and you're pretty much on your own to repair them and keep them flying. Since they're experimental category, there's more freedom to do that. One of the best, some would say THE BEST aerobatic plane ever built is the Giles 202. There's a small number of them flying and those that have them take really good care of them generally. You might be interested to know that the tooling and design for that airplane was purchased and reengineered into the plane that is now the MX aircraft that's taking the Red Bull air race by storm and is supported by a factory in NC and owned by a guy named Chris Meyers. It's my understanding that the Giles was also the kit the French started with when they created the CAP. There's at least one fine example of the CAP 232 flying in the US flown by Debbie Rihn-Harvey, our current US aerobatic unlimited champion and you can find out more information about her and her plane on her web site at:

http://www.debbyrihnharvey.com/

BTW, the french team have left the CAP behind and are all now flying the Extra 330S which Walter Extra intends to be the plane that competes/leaps over the MX. The MX is in very low production and is very heavily involved with Red Bull so I'm told the lead times on it are long.
 
Last edited:
Also, the CAP 232 was a certified production aircraft, not experimental, as is the Extra series.

It was the CAP 222 (also certified) which was derived from the Giles 202.
 
djpacro said:
Also, the CAP 232 was a certified production aircraft, not experimental, as is the Extra series.

It was the CAP 222 (also certified) which was derived from the Giles 202.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Dave.
 
I think that is the type of aircraft that "The French Connection" aerobatic team used to use. When I was flight training to get my PPL in the early 1990's in Poughkeepsie, NY they shared the same building for their aerobatic training business as the FBO I was training at and I used to see them all the time. Never got a chance to fly the CAP 232 myself but I saw them fly and it was an impressive pilot/aircraft combo.
 
French Connection used to fly the CAP 10, not the 232, which was a dual seat (side by side) with a 180HP Lycoming and fixed pitch prop. It was not an unlimited class aerobatic plane, but flew a lot nicer than a Super Decathlon. The new Extras (certificated) may bring the Extra back to being a world class unlimited competitor, with lighter weight and bigger tail and engine. Main advantage is that they are supported by Southeast Aero, so parts are available, as compared to the other very small companies, that tend to come and go.
 
AcroBoy said:
FThe new Extras (certificated) may bring the Extra back to being a world class unlimited competitor, ...
Click to expand...

No "may" about it. The World Aerobatic Championships this year was won by a frenchman, Renaud Ecalle flying an Extra 330SC and 5 of the top ten spots were flown by pilots of this aircraft. I'm not a big fan of the bigger, heavier, more powerful monoplanes myself but there's no doubting that Extra is back on top at the unlimited level. It would have been interesting to see how MX's would have faired had not most of their production gotten tied up with Red Bull.

You can see all the final standings at:

http://www.wac2009.com/wacresults_day10.html
 
AcroBoy said:
French Connection used to fly the CAP 10, not the 232, which was a dual seat (side by side) with a 180HP Lycoming and fixed pitch prop.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was definitely a side by side configuration. Maybe not world class unlimited caliber but, it still looked pretty good from where I was.
 
Regarding certification, the CAPS were experimental, while the Extras are certificated, not the other way around. My Extra 300L is now old technology, but still more airplane than I plan on using for a while. It'll do six vertical rolls with two people on board with a six G pull. It is still the most capable (except for perhaps the SU-29, also now out of production) two seat aerobatic plane, and has great support within the US.
 
Jim - we're probably both right. CAPs certified in Europe and Australia (a bunch of 10s and a single 232 here) but maybe not in the USA.
My earlier post should've had better grammar - I knew the Extra was certified too.
 
Thanks- I was thinking like a provincial American and referring to the FAA only. In the states, the only unlimited class aerobatic plane that is certificated is the Extra as far as I know. This actually means little, and in fact might be a handicap if you wanted to do any work on your own or change anything on the plane. I personally do not have the time or commitment to work toward flying anywhere near the world level, and prefer going out on warm evenings and throwing the plane around and taking friends for rides, so the 300L is more than enough for this purpose. Besides, if you need a part, like a canopy (which my mechanic broke last year and cost $12,000) they are available, which might not be the case for a Giles, Cap, etc.
 
AcroBoy said:
In the states, the only unlimited class aerobatic plane that is certificated is the Extra as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Edge 540T? Maybe they're busy with other things inc Red Bull too?
Yep, spares for a CAP could take a while to get these days.
A couple of local Giles had dings recently but both seem to have got by with help from MX.
 
AcroBoy said:
Besides, if you need a part, like a canopy (which my mechanic broke last year and cost $12,000) they are available, which might not be the case for a Giles, Cap, etc.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...

...how'd that conversation go? :D
 
Dave, welcome to Pilots of America! It's great to see you here. :)
 
djpacro said:
Jim - we're probably both right. CAPs certified in Europe and Australia (a bunch of 10s and a single 232 here) but maybe not in the USA.
My earlier post should've had better grammar - I knew the Extra was certified too.
Click to expand...

I remember a school in the US had a CAP-10 for aerobatic training, so there must have been some certified here. Perhaps it's like Pitts, some are certified, some are experimental....?
 
AcroBoy said:
Thanks- I was thinking like a provincial American and referring to the FAA only. In the states, the only unlimited class aerobatic plane that is certificated is the Extra as far as I know.
Click to expand...

I thought the SU-29 was also certified.
 
The school that ran the Cap-10 was in Flagler Beach, FL, and I think also for a while in Poughkeepsie, NY, and was run by the French Connection (flew with them once in FL). I think it is a misconception that an aircraft has to be certificated in order to do instruction, but not sure.

We also had two SU-29's on our field for a while, but neither aircraft was certificated by the FAA. My inpression of the Russian round engines is that you should be into turning wrenches and doing a lot on your own if you want to keep them running right.

Before the annual on my Extra, I cautioned my mechanic at least three times about the fragility of the canopy- it has a safety strap, and if the wind catches it the strap is designed to break away. It got away from him on a gusty day, and of course the canopy broke. The repair took a month, and he even wanted to do the annual for free, which I declined. He took responsibility for breaking the canopy, and made sure it was done right away. So, no problem- we need more people like him.
 
The 10B is the only CAP certified in the USA.
At least the Extra canopy is a bit more robust than a Pitts canopy.
Our '74 Pitts has the bubble but we can easily remove it and put the original back on (or have it open).

Thanks for the welcome, Diana. Summer holiday time here so plenty of time to bother people on the net. (haven't seen any snow to speak of for 15 years now)
 
Hey got a dumb question. All this talk about the Zivko Edge reminded me of the Shark project Zivko started for Leo Loudenslager. Did they ever fly that thing?
 
vontresc said:
Hey got a dumb question. All this talk about the Zivko Edge reminded me of the Shark project Zivko started for Leo Loudenslager. Did they ever fly that thing?
Click to expand...

It's hanging in the EAA museum at Oshkosh and I think I remember reading on a plaque there that it never flew.
 
AcroBoy said:
I think it is a misconception that an aircraft has to be certificated in order to do instruction, but not sure.
Click to expand...

Here's the pertinent regs in the US:

91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.

(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate—


(2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.

(e) No person may operate an aircraft that is issued an experimental certificate under §21.191(i) of this chapter for compensation or hire, except a person may operate an aircraft issued an experimental certificate under §21.191(i)(1) for compensation or hire to—


(2) Conduct flight training in an aircraft which that person provides prior to January 31, 2010.

(h) The FAA may issue deviation authority providing relief from the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section for the purpose of conducting flight training. The FAA will issue this deviation authority as a letter of deviation authority.
(1) The FAA may cancel or amend a letter of deviation authority at any time.
(2) An applicant must submit a request for deviation authority to the FAA at least 60 days before the date of intended operations. A request for deviation authority must contain a complete description of the proposed operation and justification that establishes a level of safety equivalent to that provided under the regulations for the deviation requested.


(i) The Administrator may prescribe additional limitations that the Administrator considers necessary, including limitations on the persons that may be carried in the aircraft.

I wonder where the Jan 1, 2010 date came from? It appears that training with instructor supplied experimentals now requires a deviation authority. AFaIK you can always pay for instruction in an experimental you own (or borrow if you have really good friends).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top