canceling IFR after landing at non-towered airports

[NoHeat]

If you need to cancel your IFR flight plan after you land at a non-towered airport, and you can't reach Center on the radio, what's the best number to call?

The Instrument Flying Handbook isn't much help. It just says this:

If operating on an IFR flight plan to an airport without an operating control tower, the pilot is responsible for cancelling the flight plan. This can be done by telephone after landing if there is no operating FSS or other means of direct communications with ATC.
​

This doesn't tell you which number to call, or even whom to call.

The one time I've needed to do this, I phoned FSS at 800-WXBRIEF --this was easy because I could remember the phone number, and it did work, but it seemed a bit indirect because they just put me on hold while they phoned ATC to relay my request. Would it be better to phone some ATC number instead?

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

You could try 888-766-8267

Sent via teletype

 

[DaytonaLynn]

If you need to cancel your IFR flight plan after you land at a non-towered airport, and you can't reach Center on the radio, what's the best number to call?

The Instrument Flying Handbook isn't much help. It just says this:

If operating on an IFR flight plan to an airport without an operating control tower, the pilot is responsible for cancelling the flight plan. This can be done by telephone after landing if there is no operating FSS or other means of direct communications with ATC.
​

This doesn't tell you which number to call, or even whom to call.

The one time I've needed to do this, I phoned FSS at 800-WXBRIEF --this was easy because I could remember the phone number, and it did work, but it seemed a bit indirect because they just put me on hold while they phoned ATC to relay my request. Would it be better to phone some ATC number instead?

Nice bike, I have the ST

 

[Captain]

Typically I ask Approach or Center before I switch off if I can get them on the ground. They work the sector and know which airports they can hear on the ground or not. They have always either informed me that 'Yes, they can on freq: xxx.xx' or 'No, call xxx-xxx-xxxx'.

Never had a problem. If you forget to do that then you're back to 800-WX-BRIEF as a backstop.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Nice bike, I have the ST

I had to think about that one for a few minutes. I have avatars turned off so I didn't get the connection right away.

I had a 12RT.

Back on subject, some non-towered fields have repeaters for the local approach sector, so it doesn't hurt to try it on the ground first.

 

[ScottM]

I have approach tell me what frequency on the ground to cancel with if it is different than the one I am on. I have also had approach give me the phone number because they knew radio coverage was poor at the airport I was landing at. But if it was a normal type of place I would try Flight Service first.

 

[DrMack]

You could try 888-766-8267

Sent via teletype

That's the national clearance delivery number that I have used quite often to pick up a clearance but have never used it to cancel. Has anyone ever used it to cancel? It sure would be convenient if so.

I typically cancel in the air (if MVFR or above) but never have been really comfortable with that because I've always been concerned about being out of the system in case of a landing mishap. It's nice to know that SAR would automatically be activated if the system is not informed of our safe arrival.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Last week I couldn't reach approach because I had gotten too low but asked if anyone that could hear me would relay. Someone did and confirmed with their tail number. If that didn't work, I would have called once on the ground as said above. If I know I can't reach approach on the ground (no freq. or ground relay) I often ask for their phone number for departure. Going through FSS with a clearance void time can be very cumbersome. I've had approach clear me when talking with them if I immediately departed and turned a specified direction to stay clear of an aircraft already cleared to depart from a different airport. With FSS I would have been waiting quite awhile. The other plane hadn't even taxied out yet but had been given a void time. Best, Dave

 

[dell30rb]

I had to cancel via relay with another aircraft once. No issues there.

I was in VMC at 3k feet and had a comm problem. Thought I was going to have to do the whole lost comm thing and squawk 7600. Fortunately though I could not contact atc, another aircraft was able to contact them for me and cancel my clearance

 

[poadeleted20]

You could try 888-766-8267

The best number to call is the direct line to the TRACON or Center, which the controller can give you and may be listed in the A/FD or AirNav, but after that, the national IFR clearance number above is probably the best (worked fine the times I've used it). At last resort, you can try 800-WX-BRIEF, but there's no assurance you'll reach someone who can contact ATC where you are (like the time in Keene NH when I got Anniston AL FSS and they had to do a triple relay to tell Boston Center I was on the ground, cancel IFR).

 

[frfly172]

If you are filed and near or in a TFr never cancel in flight before landing or you will be violated.Even if the controller asks would you like to cancel say No.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you are filed and near or in a TFr never cancel in flight before landing or you will be violated.Even if the controller asks would you like to cancel say No.

Nothing illegal about operating VFR inside even a Presidential TFR as long as you filed a flight plan that goes to ATC (and the IFR flight plan you were on counts even after you cancel IFR), you remain on your assigned discrete 4-digit transponder code through landing, and you don't leave the ATC freq for CTAF until advised by ATC. Just don't switch to 1200!

 

[flyingron]

Provided you are in the outer area. In the inner area, you'd better not only be IFR but a scheduled carrier.

 

[poadeleted20]

Provided you are in the outer area. In the inner area, you'd better not only be IFR but a scheduled carrier.

In the inner area, it won't matter whether you're IFR or VFR if you're not a Standard Security Program aircraft like a Part 121 carrier. :wink2:

 

[comanchepilot]

if you are going into a non-towered airport and want the airspace kept clear of other IFR traffic for you [and unless its daylight, the FBO is open and its an easy VFR approach why would you not?] then you are going to have to cancel on the ground.

If there is not a remote on the ground - then you will need to call the tracon. This means you need to know the phone number of the tracon. Id say in about 99% of the cases you get told - "you can cancel with me or on the ground - on teh ground call me at xxx.yyy.zzzz . . . ." I can't ever remember not getting the number.

In order of preference:

1. contact ground by radio on the frequency you are just using or some other frequency available on the ground;

2. Remoted frequency using a dialer or monitor. IJD where my airplane used to live once upon a time had a remoted frequency - 128.6 - you could call up BDL approach on 128.6 and get a clearance over the radio - of course - when money got tight in 2007 and the unit failed, it never got repaired so its notam'd permanently tango uniform.

3. Call the Tracon by phone. Pretty simple now - you used to need to make sure you had change for the not always local call once out of the airplane -

4. Call 1-800-WX-Brief and ask them for the phone number to the tracon - I promise you they have it or can find it easily - I also promise you that you can't let them do it for you. Don't ask me how I know.

5. Wait for them to call the number on your flight plan after they've diverted several airplanes because you did not call them and they did not give you a phone number . . .

the last one is pretty rare - thankfully.

 

[Thumper]

I keep the AC-U-KWIK website bookmarked in my phone as it has the tower telephone number listed for the approach facility. I don't vouch for all of them being current, but at least it gives me a resource if I'm on the ground without radio contact.

Link

 

[comanchepilot]

How is Acu-Kwik gonna help you reach a Tracon at a non-towered airport?

Pull up F70 - who do you call based solely on the Acu-Kwik page?

Thats what we are talking about in this thread. . . if the tower is open the radio works - right?

 

[comanchepilot]

Hey guys a couple more thoughts -

If you need to contact a tracon and don't have the number- call a nearby control tower. If you are going into Windham CT [IJD] and need to reach Bradley Tracon and dont have their number - call Bradley Tower or some other 24 hour nearby control tower because they will have the phone number of the tracon right on the wall.

and a couple of links -

http://www.atlasaviation.com/faa phone numbers/faa_phone_numbers.htm

hard to find them online -

 

[SCCutler]

When I am flying into a place here I know there is no ATC coverage on the ground (such as T82/Fredericksburg), I make a point of noting a couple of call-signs of other aircraft Center is working, so that if I am not in the clear soon enough to cancel with Center, I can cancel by relay from the air or ground.

Of course, absent that, I call the national Clearance Delivery number.

 

[NoHeat]

Of course, absent that, I call the national Clearance Delivery number.

You are referring to 888-766-8267?

Have you actually used that number to cancel IFR? I'm just wondering whether it works for that purpose, since it is advertised by the FAA only for obtaining clearances. DrMack also asked on this thread whether anybody has used this number to cancel IFR, but nobody replied.

 

[roncachamp]

You are referring to 888-766-8267?

Have you actually used that number to cancel IFR? I'm just wondering whether it works for that purpose, since it is advertised by the FAA only for obtaining clearances. DrMack also asked on this thread whether anybody has used this number to cancel IFR, but nobody replied.

If the purpose of that number is to reach the controller responsible for IFR service at a particular airport how could it not work for cancellation?

 

[cirrusmx]

Cancel on the air. If IMC, wait until you have the runway made, short final, out of the clouds, etc.

 

[poadeleted20]

You are referring to 888-766-8267?

Have you actually used that number to cancel IFR? I'm just wondering whether it works for that purpose, since it is advertised by the FAA only for obtaining clearances. DrMack also asked on this thread whether anybody has used this number to cancel IFR, but nobody replied.

It works. It's faster getting someone on the line when you call 800-WX-BRIEF because you don't have to listen to the L-O-N-G message they read you on the IFR clearance number, but there's a good chance the person you reach won't have any way to contact the ATC facility you need (see Keene/Anniston, above).

 

[poadeleted20]

Cancel on the air. If IMC, wait until you have the runway made, short final, out of the clouds, etc.

Be darn careful about that, especially if the airport has E-to-the-surface. Folks have been burned on that when they cancel in the air without 1000-3 and 500 below. Mr. Yodice wrote a story about that in the AOPA Legal Pilot column a few years ago -- some cat cancelled when he broke out to let the next guy get cleared for the approach, and an FAA inspector just happened to be there listening to the radio and knowing the local weather was 900-2. See 91.155 for details.

(c) Except as provided in Sec. 91.157, no person may operate an aircraft beneath the ceiling under VFR within the lateral boundaries of controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport when the ceiling is less than 1,000 feet.
(d) Except as provided in Sec. 91.157 of this part, no person may take off or land an aircraft, or enter the traffic pattern of an airport, under VFR, within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport--
(1) Unless ground visibility at that airport is at least 3 statute miles; or
(2) If ground visibility is not reported at that airport, unless flight visibility during landing or takeoff, or while operating in the traffic pattern is at least 3 statute miles.

I figure it's a lot less worrisome to just wait until I'm on the ground and then let my fingers do the walking on my cell phone than to risk any of the possible pitfalls, including being on short final and having to go around because some chucklehead decides to take off for some pattern work when the weather is 600-2 at a G-airport, and now I'm having to fly the missed approach after having cancelled IFR.

 

[roncachamp]

Be darn careful about that, especially if the airport has E-to-the-surface. Folks have been burned on that when they cancel in the air without 1000-3 and 500 below. Mr. Yodice wrote a story about that in the AOPA Legal Pilot column a few years ago -- some cat cancelled when he broke out to let the next guy get cleared for the approach, and an FAA inspector just happened to be there listening to the radio and knowing the local weather was 900-2. See 91.155 for details.

I figure it's a lot less worrisome to just wait until I'm on the ground and then let my fingers do the walking on my cell phone than to risk any of the possible pitfalls, including being on short final and having to go around because some chucklehead decides to take off for some pattern work when the weather is 600-2 at a G-airport, and now I'm having to fly the missed approach after having cancelled IFR.

Shouldn't need to let your fingers do the walking in a Class E surface area, as communications with ATC down to the runway surface is required to establish the airspace. At Class G airports you have a suitable relay to ATC if there's a guy waiting to be cleared for the approach.

 

[poadeleted20]

Shouldn't need to let your fingers do the walking in a Class E surface area, as communications with ATC down to the runway surface is required to establish the airspace. At Class G airports you have a suitable relay to ATC if there's a guy waiting to be cleared for the approach.

All the more reason not to cancel in the air.

 

[azure]

Shouldn't need to let your fingers do the walking in a Class E surface area, as communications with ATC down to the runway surface is required to establish the airspace.

Interesting. I recall several years ago being a pax of someone trying to get an IFR clearance on the ground at KPHN and being unable because the GCO was being its usual flaky self (long since decommissioned). If 119.6 worked at the surface it would have been much easier to pick up the clearance, but I believe the PIC tried that and was unable to reach them.

It's possible, given that this was quite a few (>=7) years ago, that I'm misremembering some details and that ultimately 119.6 was the solution. Does anyone know for sure, perhaps someone who has flown IFR out of PHN recently?

 

[denverpilot]

It works. It's faster getting someone on the line when you call 800-WX-BRIEF because you don't have to listen to the L-O-N-G message they read you on the IFR clearance number, but there's a good chance the person you reach won't have any way to contact the ATC facility you need (see Keene/Anniston, above).

My experience has been the opposite, the WX-BRIEF folks always seem to need to leave and return to the line (presumably calling the controlling facility) more times than the Clearance Delivery folks (who seem to know what to ask, and don't have to play 20-questions). Even with the differences in the beginning messages. (And the voice thing on WX-BRIEF trips on headset noise if you're in an airplane with the engine turning and keeps saying, "I didn't understand." too... which is highly annoying.)

 

[poadeleted20]

Interesting. I recall several years ago being a pax of someone trying to get an IFR clearance on the ground at KPHN and being unable because the GCO was being its usual flaky self (long since decommissioned). If 119.6 worked at the surface it would have been much easier to pick up the clearance, but I believe the PIC tried that and was unable to reach them.

GCO's are notoriously flaky compared to RCO's.

For those unfamiliar, GCO's are essentially a radio tied to a phone at the airport. You click the mic four times (or as published), and the phone dials the phone at the ATC facility (sometimes 4 for ATC and 6 for FSS or something like that). Problems include poor mechanical reliability, and operational issues like dropping the call if nobody talks for 15-30 seconds (say, while the controller answering the phone is getting your clearance from the controller working the sector you're in). Also, the controller is talking on a phone (a duplex unit where you can talk and listen simultaneously) but you are talking on the radio (a simplex unit where you can talk or receive but not both at the same time) -- this also complicates the discussion. RCO's are essentially a radio at the airport with a very long headset cord that runs to the ATC facility or FSS with a PTT switch at the controller's station, and those are much easier to use and much more reliable.

My gut guess is that I've had better than 95% success with RCO's but well under 50% success with GCO's. Plan accordingly.

 

[jesse]

You are referring to 888-766-8267?

Have you actually used that number to cancel IFR? I'm just wondering whether it works for that purpose, since it is advertised by the FAA only for obtaining clearances. DrMack also asked on this thread whether anybody has used this number to cancel IFR, but nobody replied.

Yes I have used that number to cancel on numerous occasions with success. Sometimes they just take care of it -- other times they've given me a different phone number to call. Sometimes that's the right number and sometimes it's not.

To sum it up -- that number is a method of canceling but it might take some messing around with.

If I know I won't be able to cancel in the air I try and ask the controller for a number to call, much easier.

 

[Captain]

Not to hijack this thread but what's in the center of a golf ball?

 

[cirrusmx]

Not to hijack this thread but what's in the center of a golf ball?

rubber?

 

[comanchepilot]

Shouldn't need to let your fingers do the walking in a Class E surface area, as communications with ATC down to the runway surface is required to establish the airspace. At Class G airports you have a suitable relay to ATC if there's a guy waiting to be cleared for the approach.

Which is why KIJD has a notams OTS [since 2007 I think] remote to BDL approach - if they took the remote out permanently they would need to remove the magneta circle/extension on the chart -

 

[roncachamp]

Which is why KIJD has a notams OTS [since 2007 I think] remote to BDL approach - if they took the remote out permanently they would need to remove the magneta circle/extension on the chart -

KIJD does not have a Class E surface area.

 

[aterpster]

KIJD does not have a Class E surface area.

Can you offer your expert opinion on why it does not?

 

[poadeleted20]

Can you offer your expert opinion on why it does not?

Lots of possible reasons why it doesn't, but the lack of the dashed magenta line around it along with the fuzzy fat magenta around it tells us it's G below 700 AGL, and operationally, that's all I care about.

 

[Velocity173]

Cancel on the air. If IMC, wait until you have the runway made, short final, out of the clouds, etc.

I second that. No point in retaining your IFR going into an uncontrolled airfield. holding out on cancelling just screws over the guys on the ground waiting to depart and anyone behind us trying to get a clearance in.

 

[poadeleted20]

I second that. No point in retaining your IFR going into an uncontrolled airfield. holding out on cancelling just screws over the guys on the ground waiting to depart and anyone behind us trying to get a clearance in.

If you're absolutely 100% certain you are going to land, mighty fine. Otherwise, the folks on the ground or behind me can wait, because I don't feel like repeating that mess in Rhode Island or finding myself flying a missed without a clearance or any of half a dozen other bad scenarios I can imagine after I cancel.

 

[Brad Z]

You are referring to 888-766-8267?

Have you actually used that number to cancel IFR? I'm just wondering whether it works for that purpose, since it is advertised by the FAA only for obtaining clearances. DrMack also asked on this thread whether anybody has used this number to cancel IFR, but nobody replied.

I tried it once after landing in Cambridge MD. I called, canceled with the Lockmart specialist, hung up, walked into Kay's, put in my order, then pulled up Flightaware on my iPad only to learn I was still flying! Moments later, Washington Center called my cell asking if I had landed. Not exactly the way it's supposed to work.

 

[DrMack]

If you're absolutely 100% certain you are going to land, mighty fine. Otherwise, the folks on the ground or behind me can wait, because I don't feel like repeating that mess in Rhode Island or finding myself flying a missed without a clearance or any of half a dozen other bad scenarios I can imagine after I cancel.

Until this thread I have probably cancelled as many times in the air as I have on the ground simply because I haven't heard enough arguments to support a case for either. But I've changed my mind now to go with my instinct that's always really been there in the back of my mind on every approach into a non-towered field, to cancel on the ground from now on.

Cap'n Ron, you are absolutely right, the safest option is to cancel when one has cleared the runway and in some circumstances even waiting until the prop has stopped spinning.

Many of you know that I have said this many times before: with few exceptions, I fly IFR every time, certainly on every cross country, not because I want to be able to fly in the weather, but because I want to fly in the system. So it makes sense to stay in the system until it is certain that the arrival is a success.

Thanks for helping me finally settle this issue in my own mind.