Can I plan just any ol' route through class B?

jasc15

jasc15

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Thread title says it all. The route is KFRG JFK SBJ, etc. Since I won't have much say in my route in the class B, would it make more sense to make the planned route outside of class B, so I have something to follow if I am denied?
 
My experience is that when planning a VFR flight through class B, you should ALWAYS have a plan in mind in case they don't let you in.
 
You get what you get from New Yahk Approach. Just be sure you have one of the gib termianl departures in front of you (they're mostly Radar Vectors) so you can find the obscure Vortac quickly....also so you can decline the 20 miles overwater vector.
 
Yeah, but...

If it's severe clear the most likely route is along the LIE, across Manhattan along 20th or so, and across NJ with some vectors.

They like VFR traffic low -- keeps you outta the arrival/departure corridors.
 
Coming out of FRG heading westbound they usually let me through at 6500. My guess is that's where they'll want you, as your planned route takes you right through the arrival corridor for Newark.

You should always have a planned route outside of the Bravo. Which route you want to take depends on your destination, which I'm unsure of. Typically I go around the north side. The south will take you a bit of a ways out over the water, which you may or may not feel comfortable with, that's a personal thing. I've flown an Archer over lakes Erie and Michigan, so I suppose I'm ok with it.
 
You can plan anything you want through a B-space, but whether you will get it depends a lot on local conditions. For example, they generally don't allow VFR traffic to transit the BaltoWash B-space east/west -- you go over, under, or around, but not through. You find out about this through experience or by calling the TRACON on the phone and asking them what to expect. Also, what they'll allow may depend on time of day -- it's a lot more restricted when they're in the middle of a big "push." So, plan/request what you want, but be prepared to do whatever they say, including avoiding the B-space entirely (over, under, or around).

That said...

My experience in the NY area suggests you are unlikely to be allowed across JFK below 5500 (east)/6500 (west) VFR, so if that's the route you want, expect to be vectored around east of JFK until you get high enough to be allowed across.
 
When you figure out the Rubik’s cube of transitioning NYC airspace please let me know. I've over flown NYC at 2500' and had a wonderful aerial tour and been vectored so far out to sea that I swear I saw Big Ben. Have a blown up sectional ready and don't be surprised when they send you out over the harbor clear of Class B.

Speaking with the guys living on the coast of CT and they tell you to stay VFR and DON'T SPEAK to NYC approach. Just stay under/between/outside the Class B layers and keep going. If you need IFR they'll tell you to file from a point clear of the NYC area, go VFR, and then pick up your IFR at that point.
 
reminds of a charter pilot and former instructor i met at some podunk airport in Ohio. He was headed back to NW Iowa and just filed direct at 4000 feet in the Navajo. Chuckled that his route took him directly over O'Hare. He knew he wasn't going to get cleared direct but he was tired of trying to out guess the controllers.
 
I fly into their B space on a fairly regular basis and never have a problem. East bound be at 35 or 55 and west bound 45 or 65 and they will let you in. I usually go Colts neck ->JFK> due east and reverse that for west bound. I would certainly not try to go in at 25 or below.
 
Come up from the south on V1; I think I've been vectored to every intersection and altitude known to mankind. Usually, between Washington Center and NYC my flight plan will be modified two to three times.
 
tonycondon said:
reminds of a charter pilot and former instructor i met at some podunk airport in Ohio. He was headed back to NW Iowa and just filed direct at 4000 feet in the Navajo. Chuckled that his route took him directly over O'Hare. He knew he wasn't going to get cleared direct but he was tired of trying to out guess the controllers.
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Lol He probably got Direct KELSI Direct Destination :rolleyes2:
 
jasc15 said:
Thread title says it all. The route is KFRG JFK SBJ, etc. Since I won't have much say in my route in the class B, would it make more sense to make the planned route outside of class B, so I have something to follow if I am denied?
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Yeah, but in my experience, over 20 years and 2200hrs, except for O'Hare, I've never been denied access to a class B, and even there they let me in eventually. The key really is to call clearance delivery before you take off, and get what you want clear with them. I have found the N.Y./Long Island corridor people pretty easy to deal with. I used to fly a lot of aerial photo missions within class Bs all over the country and it all generally works out.

If all you want is to transition, just go with the suggested routings on the Class B/TCA chart and get set up for it from take off and let them route you through it. What f-s with them is if they are busy and here you are popping in at the last moment out of position and with a request. If you make it clear before you take off, they will handle you through their airspace without a problem.

Often though it is shorter to stay low, silent and out of everyone's airspace, so being able to is a "Yeah, you should have a game plan" for avoiding them, it's really not that hard to do even in the most complex air spaces.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, but in my experience, over 20 years and 2200hrs, except for O'Hare, I've never been denied access to a class B,
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Come visit the DC area to have your experience broadened. While going in/out to an airport inside the B-space is no big deal, transiting the B-space VFR just isn't on outside night freight hours.
 
The NYC Class B has been one of the most accomodating in my experience and I use them a lot lately. Mostly, I go over the top at 7,500 or 8,500 depending on direction. If I have to drop down I tell them I will accept altitude changes and vectors.

Ron is spot on with what they like, but if you have to they'll usally let you through at 5,500 east, 6,500 weat or 2,500 either way. Remember, they are dealing with the approach paths from JFK, LaGuardia and Newark in there as well as a bunch of busy Class D's like Teterboro.
 
On most of my recent flights from LI to NJ, they just tell me to go up to 6500 and then they let me fly direct. Easy as can be.
 
Anthony said:
Ron is spot on with what they like, but if you have to they'll usally let you through at 5,500 east, 6,500 weat or 2,500 either way. Remember, they are dealing with the approach paths from JFK, LaGuardia and Newark in there as well as a bunch of busy Class D's like Teterboro.
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You can get 2500 westbound from FRG, but not over JFK. They'll either take you out south over the ocean (well out of gliding range of the beaches :eek:) or up north by Westchester before turning you west.
 
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