Can I log it? Sim Time

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

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What are the regs for logging time in a level D sim? I may get the chance at a few minutes in a flight sim next week (I believe full-motion level D, but not yet positive). Assuming it's set up as a 737 or 757, what can I log, and how can I log the time? Would I need an instructor in the right seat? Could I log it as actual time if it's a level d? What if it falls short of Level D? Oh, and would I need a signature?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions. Would be cool to have some fake jet time in the books!
 
I log the type of equipment, total simulator time, simulated instrument time, number and type of approaches, and the landings. It doesn't go into my flight time.

Not sure what to tell you about signatures. Typically records are kept as part of the training program you'd be going through, and those records have the signatures needed for what you're doing, be it a type ride, proficiency check, or whatever. I've never been in a sim for just one session.
 
Like all other flight time logging questions, most of the answers to what you can log is in 61.51, the "Universal Rule of Logging Flight Time."

61.51(e) - logging PIC. Well, you're not rated to begin with but even if you were, logging PIC requires it be in an "aircraft." If you look at the definition of "aircraft" in FAR 1.1, you'll see that even the best sims are not "aircraft" Same for logging SIC under 61.51(f).

61.51(g)(3) allows logging of simulator instrument time but only if "an authorized instructor is present to observe that time and signs the person's logbook or training record to verify the time and the content of the training session."

61.51(h) allows logging of training time (dual) if you are receiving "training from an authorized instructor" and the instructor endorses the training.

Beyond 61.51, you may log the landings if the sim is FAA- approved for landings (Level D probably is) under 61.57(a)(3) and (b)(2) and instrument approaches under 61.57(c).

It does not get logged as "flight time" because it's not an "aircraft." And whether you list it in your "simulated instrument" column or not is more of a bookkeeping question than a regulatory one.
 
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ebykowsky said:
What are the regs for logging time in a level D sim? I may get the chance at a few minutes in a flight sim next week (I believe full-motion level D, but not yet positive). Assuming it's set up as a 737 or 757, what can I log, and how can I log the time? Would I need an instructor in the right seat? Could I log it as actual time if it's a level d? What if it falls short of Level D? Oh, and would I need a signature?
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Don't need an instructor in the right seat, but you do need an instructor to sign you off and typically is the one who operates the sim.

Log it as sim time, not flight time. Doesn't necessarily have to be Level D to log it. Could be Level C and still loggable just as an FAA approved PCATD or FTD is loggable.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Beyond 61.51, you may log the landings if the sim is FAA- approved for landings (Level D probably is) under 61.57(a)(3) and (b)(2) and instrument approaches under 61.57(c).
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I don't think the landings can be logged for the 3 landings in 90 days of 61.57(a) unless he has a type rating in that aircraft and is in a part 142 approved training program.
 
ebykowsky said:
What are the regs for logging time in a level D sim? I may get the chance at a few minutes in a flight sim next week (I believe full-motion level D, but not yet positive). Assuming it's set up as a 737 or 757, what can I log,
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Pilot time, simulated instrument time (when the sim is set for low vis or in the clouds), flight simulator time, and training received. You cannot either log PIC time or flight time, neither of which may be logged other than in an aircraft in flight. See 14 CFR 61.51 for details.

and how can I log the time?
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With a pen and ink in the appropriate columns of your pilot logbook.

Would I need an instructor in the right seat?
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No, the authorized instructor on the console is sufficient. The right seat need only be occupied by someone acting as your SIC.

Could I log it as actual time if it's a level d?
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No. You cannot log actual instrument time other than in an aircraft in flight. This was explained in a Chief Counsel letter of interpretation about 30 years ago.

What if it falls short of Level D?
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As long as it is an approved flight simulation device, you can log it as stated above. You can also log any recent experience events (approaches, landing, etc) or other required maneuvers for which it is approved in its Letter of Authorization, which should be available at the sim.

Oh, and would I need a signature?
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Yes. The regulations require that the authorized instructor sign the trainee's logbook for all training the trainee receives.
 
midlifeflyer said:
61.51(e) - logging PIC. Well, you're not rated to begin with but even if you were, logging PIC requires it be in an "aircraft." If you look at the definition of "aircraft" in FAR 1.1, you'll see that even the best sims are not "aircraft" Same for logging SIC under 61.51(f).
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It also requires the type rating which presumably he doesn't have even if it were a real 737.
 
ColoPilot said:
I don't think the landings can be logged for the 3 landings in 90 days of 61.57(a) unless he has a type rating in that aircraft and is in a part 142 approved training program.
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I think you're jumbling the requirement. If you are going to fly passengers in a plane requiring a type rating, then your currency has to be in that type. However, you can do the takeoffs and landings in an aircraft requiring a type rating (even without the type rating) and count that towards carrying passengers in an aircraft of the same category and class which does not need a type rating.
 
Ron Levy said:
I know of no regulation which says that.
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I don't have any direct experience with this, but doesn't 61.57(a)(3)(ii) require it to be part of an approved course?

"The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that is--
(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter"
 
flyingron said:
I think you're jumbling the requirement. If you are going to fly passengers in a plane requiring a type rating, then your currency has to be in that type. However, you can do the takeoffs and landings in an aircraft requiring a type rating (even without the type rating) and count that towards carrying passengers in an aircraft of the same category and class which does not need a type rating.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I understand it now. Thanks!
 
ColoPilot said:
I don't have any direct experience with this, but doesn't 61.57(a)(3)(ii) require it to be part of an approved course?

"The takeoffs and landings required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that is--
(ii) Used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter"
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After further review, I agree -- that's the regulation covering this. However, from a practical perspective, I don't think anyone is operating a Level D sim without such approval, and as I said originally, that approval is necessary.
 
Technically, the OP probably isn't doing this as part of an "approved course" even if the simulator itself is approved. But I'm guessing that logging the landings wouldn't help the OP as far as landing currency anyway since it's a multiengine sim and landing currency requires the same category and class.
 
Heck yes, put in your log book....................but just don't use the time toward anything. Take pictures too!
 
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Thanks guys... I'll bring my log book with me no matter what, and hope there's an instructor there to let me know how to log the specific time and clear things up.
And I'll take a pic or two!
 
ebykowsky said:
Thanks guys... I'll bring my log book with me no matter what, and hope there's an instructor there to let me know how to log the specific time and clear things up.
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It's unlikely there won't be an "authorized instructor" present at one of those sims.
 
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