Can I get a BFR without a medical?

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Back into flying, medical has lapsed. I have some issues. But...I can fly LSA planes
WITHOUT a medical. I haven't bought my LSA and no one has any to rent.

Can I get a BFR in a Part 23 (Cessna 172) without a medical? If not what FAR says I can't?
 
Yes, you can, provided your instructor is willing to act as PIC for the BFR.
 
You can also do the BFR in a simulator or training device. The FARs explicitly allow for that. I'm not sure how easily you can find a simulator that meets the requirement for landings, though.
 
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You can also do the BFR in a simulator or training device. The FARs explicitly allow for that. I'm not sure how easily you can find a simulator that meets the requirement for landings, though.
There aren't a lot of Part 142 training centers around, either, and the regulation allows this option only at a Part 142 training center (which is not the same as a Part 141 flight school) -- and that center and its equipment must be specifically approved for a flight review course.
(i) A flight simulator or flight training device may be used to meet the flight review requirements of this section subject to the following conditions:
(1) The flight simulator or flight training device must be used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(2) Unless the flight review is undertaken in a flight simulator that is approved for landings, the applicant must meet the takeoff and landing requirements of Sec. 61.57(a) or Sec. 61.57(b) of this part.
(3) The flight simulator or flight training device used must represent an aircraft or set of aircraft for which the pilot is rated.

In any event, as stated above, there is no need for a medical certificate for a flight review in a C-172 as long as the instructor is acting as PIC. Just make sure the instructor is aware of that and agrees beforehand, as there are some out there who themselves don't have a medical.
 
In any event, as stated above, there is no need for a medical certificate for a flight review in a C-172 as long as the instructor is acting as PIC. Just make sure the instructor is aware of that and agrees beforehand, as there are some out there who themselves don't have a medical.

And if you do have a medical and you're going to do a BFR with a medical-less flight instructor (I have), that you meet the qualifications to be PIC (i.e., your prior BFR has to be still in the previous 24 months).
 
What about doing it in an LSA? No med req.
 
There aren't a lot of Part 142 training centers around, either, and the regulation allows this option only at a Part 142 training center (which is not the same as a Part 141 flight school) -- and that center and its equipment must be specifically approved for a flight review course.

I hadn't thought of that point.

Is it easier to find a simulator or device for an instrument proficiency check? I think I've heard of people doing an IPC at Flight Safety.
 
Is it easier to find a simulator or device for an instrument proficiency check?
A bit easier, as it doesn't have to be a Part 142 training center. The difficult IPC requirements to be approved in a flight simulation device are the circling maneuver and landing from an instrument approach.

I think I've heard of people doing an IPC at Flight Safety.
...probably in the big, expensive full flight simulators. I suspect SimCon and RTC can do the same.
 
Back into flying, medical has lapsed. I have some issues. But...I can fly LSA planes
WITHOUT a medical. I haven't bought my LSA and no one has any to rent.

Can I get a BFR in a Part 23 (Cessna 172) without a medical? If not what FAR says I can't?

Found this through a search a little late - you've gotten your question answered that (because it's an instructional flight), you can get a Flight Review, aka BFR, without a medical.

Going back to your original post though, you said that you have medical issues. Do not confuse "no medical required" with "no medical standards". If you know you have medical issues that would prevent you from getting a 3rd class medical, you are not medically qualified to fly LSA.

That's a distinction that I think a lot of people don't make. The FAA is allowing us to self-certify our medical fitness, but we still have to certify ourselves to their medical standard. If you have issues, you may need to consult with an AME to understand the standards for your condition. No medical required for LSA is not a free pass to ignore medical problems so you can keep flying.
 
A bit easier, as it doesn't have to be a Part 142 training center. The difficult IPC requirements to be approved in a flight simulation device are the circling maneuver and landing from an instrument approach.

...probably in the big, expensive full flight simulators. I suspect SimCon and RTC can do the same.
As of a few (or maybe several) years ago, Simcom does not do IPCs in most or all of their fixed simulators AFaIK. I used to get an IPC in one of their Baron sims (FTDs) when I went there each year or so but for the last few times I had to go the 6 approaches, tracking, and holding route which is really just as easy as long as you aren't 6+ months out of currency.
 
Found this through a search a little late - you've gotten your question answered that (because it's an instructional flight), you can get a Flight Review, aka BFR, without a medical.

Going back to your original post though, you said that you have medical issues. Do not confuse "no medical required" with "no medical standards". If you know you have medical issues that would prevent you from getting a 3rd class medical, you are not medically qualified to fly LSA.

That's a distinction that I think a lot of people don't make. The FAA is allowing us to self-certify our medical fitness, but we still have to certify ourselves to their medical standard. If you have issues, you may need to consult with an AME to understand the standards for your condition. No medical required for LSA is not a free pass to ignore medical problems so you can keep flying.
AFaIK there is a fairly significant difference between the medical condition required for self-certification vs passing an AME exam. IOW, I think you can often meet the "letter of the law" with conditions that would preclude getting an FAA medical certificate.
 
...If you know you have medical issues that would prevent you from getting a 3rd class medical, you are not medically qualified to fly LSA...

Then why didn't they write "Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate" in 61.53(b), like they did in 61.53(a)?
 
Probably because there is no medical certificate. The phrase is "while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."

You think the FAA is going to say "oh, you had a heart attack, but it's ok because you didn't know"? Part of self certification in the responsibility to know.
 
Probably because there is no medical certificate. The phrase is "while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."

You think the FAA is going to say "oh, you had a heart attack, but it's ok because you didn't know"? Part of self certification in the responsibility to know.

If the FAA wants people exercising sport pilot privileges to ground themselves if they have a condition that would make them ineligible for a medical certificate, then that's what they should write. Otherwise, it just creates confusion.

A heart attack is an extreme example; not everything is that clear cut.
 
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What standard can you use except for the medical standards for a 3rd class medical? A heart attack is extreme, how about something less exteme? Say...an aspririn? Can you take an asprin and fly? Of course, but how do you know? You look it up in the FAA drug database and see that it's OK. If you don't look it up and it's not OK, the FAA doesn't care, you should have known because the information was available to you and you know that you have the responsibility to know.

Nothing changes.
 
What FAA drug database? The only one I know if is maintained by AOPA, not the FAA.
 
What standard can you use except for the medical standards for a 3rd class medical?
How about the medical requirements for a drivers license in your state.
A heart attack is extreme, how about something less exteme?
How about prostate cancer? The FAA feels the risk of sudden incapacitation is high enough to defer to the palace but I'd certainly feel comfortable self-certifying after my doctor told me I was cured and get back to life.
Say...an aspririn? Can you take an asprin and fly? Of course, but how do you know? You look it up in the FAA drug database and see that it's OK. If you don't look it up and it's not OK, the FAA doesn't care, you should have known because the information was available to you and you know that you have the responsibility to know.
Nothing changes.
Of course, there is no FAA drug database. AOPA and EAA try though. The FAA bureaucrats say it's too hard for the collective staff in OKC to keep it current, of course, the individual pilot sure better keep up.
 
If you know you have medical issues that would prevent you from getting a 3rd class medical, you are not medically qualified to fly LSA.
That may be your opinion, but it's simply wrong.

I'm reasonably certain I'd get denied a 3rd class medical. Yet three cardiologists and my GP (who is a pilot) all agree there is no medical reason I'm not fit to fly. There are even differences of opinion between AMEs on what my chances would be for an SI. Given, however, the "aviation death penalty" for trying and failing, I'm not going to even try.

There are numerous things a person may have in his or her medical history that would preclude them from getting a third class medical certificate, many of which are temporary in nature and would not keep them from being able to safely fly.
 
If you know you have medical issues that would prevent you from getting a 3rd class medical, you are not medically qualified to fly LSA.
The Federal Air Surgeon disagrees.
Q: f I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driver's license, if otherwise qualified?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, 61.53, prohibits all pilots--those who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. The FAA revised 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. driver's license as medical qualification. The prohibition is also added under 61.23 (c) (2) (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.

You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties.
IOW, as long as you have never had a medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, the mere fact you have a condition which would disqualify you from obtaining or holding a medical certificate does not stop you from flying as a Sport Pilot as long as you have determined in consultation with your own physician that you can safely perform as a Sport Pilot. Of course, there are some conditions (say, uncontrolled epilepsy) which clearly would not allow that. However, if you had a heart attack but are fully recovered and your doctor sees no significant/elevated risk of recurrence, then you can fly as a Sport Pilot without going through the FAA's post-heart attack Special Issuance process.

For more of the FAA's thinking on this issue regarding Sport Pilots, see http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/.
 
I think that is what I said. If you know you have a condition that prevents safe flight, don't do it. As a higher bar to that, if you know you would be disqualified if you tried for a 3rd class, then you are already disqualified.

If you think you might, remaining ignorant may not keep you legal because you still have an obligation to find out.

Your quote from the link is exactly what I've been saying in multiple threads.

Or are you suggesting that there are known medical deficiencies that would prevent a 3rd class medically, but for which the pilot could still operate an airplane just as safely?
 
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I think that is what I said. If you know you have a condition that prevents safe flight, don't do it.
I think that's what the regs say.

As a higher bar to that, if you know you would be disqualified if you tried for a 3rd class, then you are already disqualified.
I know that's not what the regs say. As I said above, there are conditions which would be disqualifying but not necessarily compromising safety -- those mostly conditions which could result in a Special Issuance after considerable expense and effort. The beauty of the Federal Air Surgeon's guidance is that for Sport Pilots, if you and your physician agree you're safe to fly, you don't have to go to the expense and effort of proving that to the FAA before flight.

If you think you might, remaining ignorant may not keep you legal because you still have an obligation to find out.
Agreed, but as I said, the fact that something would prevent normal issuance of a Third Class medical does not automatically preclude legal flying as a Sport Pilot.

Or are you suggesting that there are known medical deficiencies that would prevent a 3rd class medically, but for which the pilot could still operate an airplane just as safely?
I'm not saying it -- the Federal Air Surgeon is (in writing no less), and he's far more qualified to make that statement than I am. The only things that automatically medically disqualify you from Sport Pilot flying are lack of a US driver's license combined with denial of your last medical application/revocation or suspension of your last medical certificate.
 
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