can an LLC owning an experimental A/C get paid ?

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by Peter Pen, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. Peter Pen

    Peter Pen Guest

    Can an LLC owning an experimental A/C get paid for displaying an advertisement in form of a company logo on the side of the airplane? What does FAA say about it? Where do I look? thanks!
     
  2. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Check 91.319. Talks about Limitations of Exp-AB aircraft.
     
  3. Ravioli

    Ravioli Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Most likely answer is NO..

    My rational is that advertising is commercial activity, and no commercial activity is allowed in experimentals. The only exception is transition training under a LODA, but it's highly unlikely to get a LODA for advertising (and certainly not for banner towing).

    All that withstanding: If it is the LLC's aircraft and they are showing a logo that is not blatant advertisement you can maybe get away with it. URL's and Phone Numbers might not be low key enough.
     
  4. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    Well I guess that every airshow performer is going to get violated.........

    Bob
     
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  5. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 En-Route

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    Is there a prohibition in the regs against anything besides carrying persons or property for hire? If not, would such logos qualify as carrying persons or property? If not, then how would it be prohibited? Just curious.
     
  6. Ravioli

    Ravioli Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Sponsorship is not the same as advertising. Knowing the rules would be important, for sure.
     
  7. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Slight thread drift, do airshow performers have commercial tickets? Is that a requirement? Has nothing to do with the OP, just curious.
     
  8. Peter Pen

    Peter Pen Guest

    thanks to everyone who has responded. I haven't seen anything in the regs that would prohibit this... The pilot isn't getting paid, the LLC is... also, how is displaying a small Corp logo on the side of an aircraft is different from sponsorship ? :dunno:
     
  9. Lindberg

    Lindberg Pattern Altitude

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    Where is the prohibition on all commercial activity in experimentals?
     
  10. Ravioli

    Ravioli Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    In my Op-Lims for Phase 2 flight it states in item 1 "No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of meeting the requirements of 14 CFR 91.319(b) during phase 1 flight testing, and for recreation or education after meeting these requirements"

    Then in item 11 "No person may operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire."

    Arguably, a logo is not "carrying property," but I don't know to squeeze into flying for "recreation or education" as the purpose.

    BICBW.
     
  11. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    it is? funny then how every sponsor has a big logo on the aircraft somewhere. thats exactly what sponsorship is, advertising.

    also, my op-specs say the same thing, no carrying persons or property for hire. advertising on the side of the plane is not carrying persons or property for hire, its just somebody paying for my paint job.
    bob
     
  12. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. You're wrong. There are lots of experimental exhibition and restricted use aircraft generating revenue in commercial ops.
     
  13. Ravioli

    Ravioli Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Your post implies you know the rules which allow this activity. That would be a nice addition.

    Unfortunately you quoted me saying "Sponsorship is not the same advertising" and started with "it is"? What's you point?
     
  14. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    the rules have been quoted, there is no prohibition of commercial activity in an experimental. 1st there are various types of experimental. exhibition and racing all have sponsorship and advertising on them and are used in commercial operations, IE airshows. EAB is only limited by what is written in the op-specs for the aircraft. as I, and others have quoted, mine says "no carriage of persons or property for hire". that's it. there are plenty of EAB's that carry advertisments for various companies. team aerodynamics comes to mind. they are all EAB and operate for pay at airshows with sponsorship. but they do not carry any person or property for hire during the airshow so they are operating within their op-specs.

    bob