California Aeronautical University

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Jake17R

Filing Flight Plan
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Jake17R
First post.. Will keep this concise though I know it won't be short.

FYI, I have been seriously considering, (I am enrolled for next start term but can back out) going to this school. I am 20, almost 21, and decided the career path I was going down was not for me so I am onto pursuing aviation.


There is a brand New 141 flight school in Southern California called California Aeronautical University. It has the goal of getting a student "zero to hero" with an associates and bachelors in aeronautics and the necessary hours for acquiring ATP in 3 years. After the first 18 months or less, all pilots ratings are acquired with 200 - 300 hours, and they tell students to build hours being a CFI or different pilot while finishing out the bachelors (classes only occur in the evening at the very earliest 5ish to 10ish at the latest) Nobody has finished the program yet because it is so brand new, though some are nearing the end and have almost their 1,000 hours right on schedule. They have good pipeline/cadet/signing programs. Cost is 140-150k raw after ALL is said and done, that does not include scholarships I have been rewarded this far nor the ones I will be rewarded in the future, the transferable credits I have, or the fact I can begin paying loans down a year and a half into the program long before I am expected to start paying them.

Worth it? Or settle for different degree like everyone says and gather ratings at local FBO?

Thank you


PS I am leery of this place and its striking resemblance to other money hungry "pilot factories," question is, are these potential benefits enough to outweigh this cost? Is it feasible that if I play my cards right and am skillful I will be at the regionals in 3 to 3 and a half years?

Sincerely,
I just want to be a professional pilot
 
Wow...is it really $150k of debt to hopefully get a $40k/year job in 3 years these days?
 
Shawn said:
Wow...is it really $150k of debt to hopefully get a $40k/year job in 3 years these days?
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Not in it for the hefty paycheck, wrong profession to get rich doing.
just don't want to be totally ripped off and unnecessarily struggling my first 5 years as a pilot.
 
2 years at community college.
2 more years at CSU something
Local part 61 flight school for ppl-cfi

Those should be waaaaayyyyy less than 150k.
Like 60k tops. Most of that is flight stuff.

That's a ton less debt and no one at skyWest or Wisconsin air will care if you went to 141 or not.

Get to 1500 hrs asap and get hired so you get seniority number.

Read Jordanes post on getting g from cfi to rj pilot.
 
ChemGuy said:
2 years at community college.
2 more years at CSU something
Local part 61 flight school for ppl-cfi

Those should be waaaaayyyyy less than 150k.
Like 60k tops. Most of that is flight stuff.

That's a ton less debt and no one at skyWest or Wisconsin air will care if you went to 141 or not.

Get to 1500 hrs asap and get hired so you get seniority number.

Read Jordanes post on getting g from cfi to rj pilot.
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So this has been my plan until this school. I have one class to finish an AA degree, then could go on to my local state school. Big issue is, I don't know how to finance the 40-60k for flight training, as the same loans are not offered for a non college. Also comes the issue that I am in Bakersfield, CA and local FBOs aren't going to get me all the way through both my CFI's. Thoughts?
 
I can't comment on the professional pilot job path, but one thing to consider is the degree you get from this school might not be useful outside of being a pilot (i.e. you lose you medical). Some employers only accept engineering degrees from ABET accredited colleges. It may not matter but it's another piece of information to consider.
 
It's been a long time since I've priced out college, but what does a 4 year degree at a cheap school cost these days? I'm just wondering if you can't get the 4 year degree, train Part 61, and instruct until 1500 in 3.5 years anyway. Seems to me that it'd be far cheaper, and less debt (or none at all) gives you many more options when choosing a regional/freight/corporate/135 gig down the line.

EDIT: you beat me to the punch with your post. Are you sure you can't get your CFI at local schools in Bakersfield? Maybe Fresno? Visalia?
 
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Aren't there zero to hero programs out there are are not just pure pilot mills that are like $50k?

Looked at the website...320 hours of flight time is all it offers for $150k. The rest to 1000 or 1500 seems it is on you...that is $468/hour for flight training.

Check the accreditation to see if the degree they offer is worth that premium in the real world.

Certainly is the path of least resistance to regionals while also getting an "education"...but at a price.
 
Get a 4 year degree as cheaply as possible. I went to a local state school and got a BA in Economics while flying on the side towards my ratings. The airlines don't care what your degree is. Once I got my CFI senior year of college, I flew a crap ton of hours and a year later I'm at a regional. It can be done. Just work hard and stay positive. Good luck!
 
kayoh190 said:
It's been a long time since I've priced out college, but what does a 4 year degree at a cheap school cost these days? I'm just wondering if you can't get the 4 year degree, train Part 61, and instruct until 1500 in 3.5 years anyway. Seems to me that it'd be far cheaper, and less debt (or none at all) gives you many more options when choosing a regional/freight/corporate/135 gig down the line.

EDIT: you beat me to the punch with your post. Are you sure you can't get your CFI at local schools in Bakersfield? Maybe Fresno? Visalia?
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Ok there has to be a way to complete the training locally. Let's say there is. Is that the way to go? Even with scholarship help, glass g1000 cockpits, being able to work in a year and a half, etc at the other school?
 
Jake17R said:
Is that the way to go? Even with scholarship help, glass g1000 cockpits, being able to work in a year and a half, etc at the other school?
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I personally think it is. If instructor jobs were hard to find, or the regionals were being choosy with whom they hire, the placement programs that exist at a big academy *might* be worth the added cost. But at least at the moment, there's no barrier to entry for a regional gig - you just need the ratings and the flight time. So with that being the case, I think I'd just get to that point as inexpensively as possible. No need to distract yourself with glass or anything else. As Jordan said, just bust your ass and get it done, and the less money you owe once it's all over, the better.
 
jordane93 said:
Get a 4 year degree as cheaply as possible. I went to a local state school and got a BA in Economics while flying on the side towards my ratings. The airlines don't care what your degree is. Once I got my CFI senior year of college, I flew a crap ton of hours and a year later I'm at a regional. It can be done. Just work hard and stay positive. Good luck!
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Awesome story, so relatable, thank you! If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to acquire all the ratings? What was, roughly, the cost?
 
Jake17R said:
Awesome story, so relatable, thank you! If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to acquire all the ratings? What was, roughly, the cost?
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It took me about 4 years from 0-CFI. I should have gotten it done in 3 years but I took a year off from flying due to a mix of personal reasons and I was stupid and procrastinated on a few written tests. Overall it cost me about 60K. Another thing to note with these pilot mill schools is the multi engine hours they offer and their "bridge" programs with regionals. If you have 1500 total time and 25 hours multi engine and can answer a few simple questions, you're hired. A lot of these big schools advertise that they'll give you several hundred multi engine hours, which if this was 10 years, it might be worth it. Now, you only need 25 hours and they'll hire you in the right seat of a jet. The schools that have agreements with regionals aren't really special. There's a huge hiring wave right and all you really need to have is the hours and be able to pass their interview which is fairly straight forward.
 
jordane93 said:
It took me about 4 years from 0-CFI. I should have gotten it done in 3 years but I took a year off from flying due to a mix of personal reasons and I was stupid and procrastinated on a few written tests. Overall it cost me about 60K. Another thing to note with these pilot mill schools is the multi engine hours they offer and their "bridge" programs with regionals. If you have 1500 total time and 25 hours multi engine and can answer a few simple questions, you're hired. A lot of these big schools advertise that they'll give you several hundred multi engine hours, which if this was 10 years, it might be worth it. Now, you only need 25 hours and they'll hire you in the right seat of a jet. The schools that have agreements with regionals aren't really special. There's a huge hiring wave right and all you really need to have is the hours and be able to pass their interview which is fairly straight forward.
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I think from 0-cfi, mei im in about 80k.
$20k of that was my private from a school that jerked me around. 60k was going to atp. Id say if you're willing to fill in your knowledge gaps atp isnt a terrible way to go. It gets it done quick. I did my mei initial with them then went to a different place for my add on. Overall id do it again. It got me finished quick and im now instructing for my schools program while getting a bachelors degree. And it gave me 32 credit hours which is a year off college. I did it more so for the ability to cfi while in school.

That being said I get where you're coming from but its not a bad route to go if you're willing to put in the work.
 
jordane93 said:
It took me about 4 years from 0-CFI. I should have gotten it done in 3 years but I took a year off from flying due to a mix of personal reasons and I was stupid and procrastinated on a few written tests. Overall it cost me about 60K. Another thing to note with these pilot mill schools is the multi engine hours they offer and their "bridge" programs with regionals. If you have 1500 total time and 25 hours multi engine and can answer a few simple questions, you're hired. A lot of these big schools advertise that they'll give you several hundred multi engine hours, which if this was 10 years, it might be worth it. Now, you only need 25 hours and they'll hire you in the right seat of a jet. The schools that have agreements with regionals aren't really special. There's a huge hiring wave right and all you really need to have is the hours and be able to pass their interview which is fairly straight forward.
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Awesome. Well, I can't say that I'm not a little worried about getting it done in the amount of time I want, and because the flight training at this school is not unreasonable and the bachelors program is where the huge cost comes from, it's another thing to consider. But i think I'm getting a feel that going the direction you guys are suggesting could definitely be more cost efficient.
 
Catalo said:
I think from 0-cfi, mei im in about 80k.
$20k of that was my private from a school that jerked me around. 60k was going to atp. Id say if you're willing to fill in your knowledge gaps atp isnt a terrible way to go. It gets it done quick. I did my mei initial with them then went to a different place for my add on. Overall id do it again. It got me finished quick and im now instructing for my schools program while getting a bachelors degree. And it gave me 32 credit hours which is a year off college. I did it more so for the ability to cfi while in school.

That being said I get where you're coming from but its not a bad route to go if you're willing to put in the work.
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How does it sound that the flight training that is "zero to hero" at the school I am looking at is quoted 60-70k, and the bachelors costs the same total on top of that?
It has sounded a little bit like a ripoff from the beginning to me, however what I come out with in a year and a half, and after 3 years is pretty cool. Also, to save money, I can quit this school after the first year and a half with an AS and all ratings and finish out the bachelors at a state school and be in the hole 110,000 at the very most.
 
What is your goal...to get to a regional as cheap as possible and have a degree, get there as quick as possible regardless of degree, or get the "education" in aeronautics for the perception of value in your career?

You can get to an AS degree a heck of a lot cheaper than 50K at a community college.
 
Catalo said:
I think from 0-cfi, mei im in about 80k.
$20k of that was my private from a school that jerked me around. 60k was going to atp. Id say if you're willing to fill in your knowledge gaps atp isnt a terrible way to go. It gets it done quick. I did my mei initial with them then went to a different place for my add on. Overall id do it again. It got me finished quick and im now instructing for my schools program while getting a bachelors degree. And it gave me 32 credit hours which is a year off college. I did it more so for the ability to cfi while in school.

That being said I get where you're coming from but its not a bad route to go if you're willing to put in the work.
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I'd say, if money isn't an issue and you want it done fast, go with ATP. But IMO, it's tough to get any real experience with just 3 months of flying. I've met great instructors from ATP and some not so great. Same thing with instructors that went to mom and pop schools.
 
jordane93 said:
I'd say, if money isn't an issue and you want it done fast, go with ATP. IMO, it's tough to get any real experience with just 3 months of flying. I've met great instructors from ATP and some not so great. Same thing with instructors that went to mom and pop schools.
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I took longer. Chicago weather sucks.and they have crew xc's which is you amd another ifr student flying around the country not just to an airport 50nm away that was really eye opening and a great experience. I was in 10 states in 6 days with over 3,500nm of flying.
 
Shawn said:
What is your goal...to get to a regional as cheap as possible and have a degree, get there as quick as possible regardless of degree, or get the "education" in aeronautics for the perception of value in your career?

You can get to an AS degree a heck of a lot cheaper than 50K at a community college.
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Exactly. In fact i am one class away from my AA in communications which I was to complete this fall, and still probably will regardless of whether I need to start a new major to better fit my future.

My goal is to get to the regionals quickly, but efficiently, I dont exactly mind which degree I have when all is said and done, HOWEVER i will have a much, much better time learning Aviation as it is my favorite topic and if I go to a different school with a different degree I will finish, but may not be as interested.

I know this is the path i want to take for a career, so I am choosing the best way to get there to get my seniority number and experience quickly, but efficiently. It seems as though going in to some amount of debt is inevitable, but this amount i am talking is, indeed, crazy. I hear the same thing about ATP and basically any other fast paced school for that matter (most pilots are great, some slip through and arent as competent), I know in my heart I can succeed anywhere so I am taking the route to a professional pilot career that is objectively the most logical.
 
jordane93 said:
I'd say, if money isn't an issue and you want it done fast, go with ATP. But IMO, it's tough to get any real experience with just 3 months of flying. I've met great instructors from ATP and some not so great. Same thing with instructors that went to mom and pop schools.
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Money is definitely an issue, but I want to take the most logical path to professional piloting, even if that means roughing it under a massive student debt until I get a bump in salary at the beginning.
 
Sounds like you need to finish your AA, register for a State University aviation program for the degree and get to your CFI on the side concurrently in a structured program that is not just a pilot mill. There are a lost of accelerated programs where you can break up each rating one at a time over that duration.
 
Catalo said:
I took longer. Chicago weather sucks.and they have crew xc's which is you amd another ifr student flying around the country not just to an airport 50nm away that was really eye opening and a great experience. I was in 10 states in 6 days with over 3,500nm of flying.
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That's good. I didn't know they did stuff like that.
 
Jake17R said:
Money is definitely an issue, but I want to take the most logical path to professional piloting, even if that means roughing it under a massive student debt until I get a bump in salary at the beginning.
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Definitely do not take a heap of debt on. You want to be debt free when the process is done.
 
jordane93 said:
That's good. I didn't know they did stuff like that.
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I don't think very many people do. And I wasn't trying to argue with you. Just trying op my experience. I got burned on my last two cfi ratings with them. Even with that I'd do it again. You get out what you put in. They train you to the pts. I got lucky with cfis who went the extra mile.

Sorry if I thread jacked
 
Catalo said:
I don't think very many people do. And I wasn't trying to argue with you. Just trying op my experience. I got burned on my last two cfi ratings with them. Even with that I'd do it again. You get out what you put in. They train you to the pts. I got lucky with cfis who went the extra mile.

Sorry if I thread jacked
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You didn't come off as argumentative at all! Like I said in my earlier post, I've found good and not so good instructors from big pilot schools and small 61 schools.
 
Shawn said:
Sounds like you need to finish your AA, register for a State University aviation program for the degree and get to your CFI on the side concurrently in a structured program that is not just a pilot mill. There are a lost of accelerated programs where you can break up each rating one at a time over that duration.
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Structured state school aviation program.. You wouldn't suggest a local FBO and concurrent enrollment at a state school for a seperate degree?
 
Thank you guys so much for the input. Appreciate it more than I can express.
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely do not take a heap of debt on. You want to be debt free when the process is done.
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Do you have experience paying down a debt, or coming out debt free? Besides the obvious monthly check slicing, what are the downsides to having a heap of debt and getting there faster?


Is it true or a fallacy that I could be making decent salary at a regional or something at the majors 5 years after hire date?
 
Jake17R said:
Structured state school aviation program.. You wouldn't suggest a local FBO and concurrent enrollment at a state school for a seperate degree?
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I was suggeting a State school to get your aviation degree but not rely on that to fast track you to CFI. Separate your education from flight training...since you are willing to spend some money do the ratings concurrently with your college at local FBO or with an structured accelerated program one rating at a time while you are getting your degree.

I did similar things in my career and education, although not in aviation.

The danger in any part of life having a heap of debt is that you are stuck needing to make a heap of money to pay for that heap of debt right out of the gate. The less debt you have, the more risks you can take with your career early on or jobs that may not pay as well right now but will pay off in the future. If you have to keep a job to pay the larger bills, you are stuck.
 
Going deeply into debt for a low paying job that is one medical away from termination seems like unsound financial sense.
 
Shawn said:
I was suggeting a State school to get your aviation degree but not rely on that to fast track you to CFI. Separate your education from flight training...since you are willing to spend some money do the ratings concurrently with your college at local FBO or with an structured accelerated program one rating at a time while you are getting your degree.
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Ok, I understand. Does it hinder my chances or knowledge as a pilot not receiving the related aviation degree if I can tough out school for my original and backup career path which is marketing and sales while I get through my ratings?
 
steingar said:
Going deeply into debt for a low paying job that is one medical away from termination seems like unsound financial sense.
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Ok this is true. If I get my first class medical now, and cut out extreme activities like I already have (skateboarding, mountain biking) what are the odds I lose it? I'm quite healthy.
 
Will not having your degree in aviation hinder your chances as a career pilot? Highly doubtful. Hours and ratings and you have a job with today's environment. Just having a degree will be beneficial as an employee, but I would argue it does not need to be in aviation specifically to have a successful aviation career. Never been asked what my degree was in since I graduated. Value in college education today is learning the system and rule of engagement with discipline more that learning ABC's of a topic.

Business management would be a better degree if you want to succeed in aviation!
 
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You will want a 4yr degree to get hired by major. Flying rjs doesn't sound like a lot of time to finish a degree, maybe online. That means you have ~2 yrs of school left.

Therfore you have 2yrs to get ra tings and build hours. If you have money, a year or so to go to ppl ia comm is pretty possible. Then add on cfi - only. Start instructing and 6-12 months after 4yr degree you are ready for rj.

I woukd do degree in business or other marketable skill that you can use if medical goes south or airlines quit flying. Business can also be used in aviation, as it is a Business.

Good luck. I was where you are many years ago. I chose normal college and career. Many days I know wish I had just gone the comm pilot route. Real jobs suck, mostly.
 
Jake17R said:
Ok this is true. If I get my first class medical now, and cut out extreme activities like I already have (skateboarding, mountain biking) what are the odds I lose it? I'm quite healthy.
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What are the odds against you having a tumor? What are the odds against high blood pressure, diabetes, or any number of conditions that can complicate or obviate your medical? I am one of the healthiest people on this board for my age (you can ask anyone who's met me) and my medical is a mess because of my gout, which only presented when I was in my forties. Anyone in your family have kidney stones? They're phenomenally painful, difficult to cure, and grounding.

There is one more thing you really should consider. The guy off whom I bought my bike was an airline pilot. Paid for all the ratings and everything, and pretty much gave it up and runs a motorcycle dealership. Why? He got married and had a kid, and really didn't like all the time away from his family. You should know that the needs and desires of a young man are not always those of an older man, and that the travel and time away that seems exotic now may not be so desirable later on.

Says me, get your degree. Go to a community college, then a four year school. Get a degree in a STEM field like engineering or math, something that you can use to get a kick-ass job. Then use the money you earn to climb your ratings. The airlines will still be there, so will the jets. There is a guy on this board who got an airline job in his 50s. But in the meantime you'll have a bit of life experience. You'll know yourself that much better. And if you do the airline thing at least you can do it without being knee deep in debt. That way if you decide you don't like it (lots of guys do) you can bail without destroying yourself.
 
Jake17R said:
Is it true or a fallacy that I could be making decent salary at a regional or something at the majors 5 years after hire date?
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Depends on how you define 'decent salary'.

The problem is that you have absolutely no way of knowing how the industry will be 5 years from now. Things are good at the moment, but the music can stop at any time (economy tanks, age 67, etc). No debt is nice because it allows you to be flexible when the job conditions change, which they most certainly will. Don't make financial decisions on the expectation of an upgrade at x years, or a major at y years.
 
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