CAF plane down

airguy

airguy

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airguy
Speaking of bad reporting (from a previous thread) - check out this piece of media spin.

http://www.newswest9.com/story/23671443/caf-plane-makes-emergency-landing

The SkyWest airport the plane landed at is 7T7, about 25 miles from his destination MAF, after coming from San Marcos. The story says he ran low on fuel and had to land early - but he's most definitely on the grass, with gear folded or retracted, and curled prop tips. There's more to this story than the story is giving...
 
scary - the yellow rose group has good pilots though.

They just finished restoring that airplane though, that really stinks.
 
Some of the airplanes, it is better to slide in gear up in the grass than to risk catching a rock or hole and ground looping. The Staggerwing manuals cover this if you can't land on a prepared surface.

Note that the pilot stated his fuel selector became inop, so he probably had trapped fuel he could not get to.
 
BillTIZ said:
Some of the airplanes, it is better to slide in gear up in the grass than to risk catching a rock or hole and ground looping. The Staggerwing manuals cover this if you can't land on a prepared surface.

Note that the pilot stated his fuel selector became inop, so he probably had trapped fuel he could not get to.
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The airplane is resting 20 feet west of the north/south runway in the photo, facing south. You can't see it in the cropped photo in the story I originally tagged, but the video on tonights 10 o'clock local news (KWES channel 9) shows it clearly.

I still say there's more to this story than is being told....

I'm not giving (intentionally, anyway) any kind of sinister overtones like the pilot was doing something stupid and screwed up, or anything like that - I'm just saying this was not a simple standard "Oh wow, I'm low on fuel, better land here" kind of deal like it's being portrayed. I could buy running a tank empty and not able to change tanks, and barely gliding in to the field, or even loss of power for mechanical problems, but this was NOT a standard low-fuel precautionary landing as explained.

My primary beef here is with bad reporting, not bad pilotage - he walked away from it and the airplane will fly again after an appropriate infusion of insurance money.
 
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flyingmoose said:
What is a "Caf" plane?
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Used to be confederate air force, not sure what they call it these days. Basically a flying museum piece. Glad no real harm was done.
 
O.k. I get he ditched gear up in the grass per the standard OP for a warbird.

I don't know that warbird fuel system, but what I don't get is even with a stuck fuel selector, he just departed. He should have gas a plenty. :confused:

I agree this is half-ass reporting or journalism or whatever you want to call it. Two bucks says there is a lot more to the story.
 
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txflyer said:
O.k. I get he ditched gear up in the grass per the standard OP for a warbird.

I don't know that warbird, but what I don't get is even with a stuck fuel selector, he just departed. He should have gas a plenty. :confused:

I agree this is half-ass reporting or journalism or whatever you want to call it. Two bucks says there is a lot more to the story.
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Agreed....There is more to the story then that...;)..

There is a plane like that out here in Rexburg Idaho... http://www.legacyflightmuseum.com/planes.aspx

John Bagley has it restored in great condition and flys it often... The motor is in the back and a large driveshaft passes under the pilots legs..:eek:..

I also bet that prop is made out of unobtainium too..:redface:
 
N801BH said:
Agreed....There is more to the story then that...;)..

There is a plane like that out here in Rexburg Idaho... http://www.legacyflightmuseum.com/planes.aspx

John Bagley has it restored in great condition and flys it often... The motor is in the back and a large driveshaft passes under the pilots legs..:eek:..

I also bet that prop is made out of unobtainium too..:redface:
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I'll bet there are a whole lot of unobtainium parts on that plane.

Who are these supermen who fly these outrageou$ contraptions? Where do they come from? :confused:

I wish I were one of 'em! :)
 
Ehhh, I don't buy that it is standard op for the CAF to gear up a P-39 because of a fuel issue and landing off airport. I am just starting to get involved with CAF and I am sure it depends on the wing, but the one I am getting involved in, are all very very experienced pilots.
 
txflyer said:
I'll bet there are a whole lot of unobtainium parts on that plane.

Who are these supermen who fly these outrageou$ contraptions? Where do they come from? :confused:

I wish I were one of 'em! :)
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$10,000 in sponsorship money and you can become one.
 
Inverted said:
Ehhh, I don't buy that it is standard op for the CAF to gear up a P-39 because of a fuel issue and landing off airport. I am just starting to get involved with CAF and I am sure it depends on the wing, but the one I am getting involved in, are all very very experienced pilots.
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Very true...some wings are pretty squared away and others are led by some real cowboys.
 
I was really impressed with the leadership of the Devil Dog Squadron - they are great folks and I really wish I still lived close enough to participate - of course, that is my limited exposure to CAF outside of a few folks from a few different squadrons, but everyone I met I felt like I had known my entire life.

Good people.
 
txflyer said:
O.k. I get he ditched gear up in the grass per the standard OP for a warbird.

I don't know that warbird fuel system, but what I don't get is even with a stuck fuel selector, he just departed. He should have gas a plenty. :confused:

I agree this is half-ass reporting or journalism or whatever you want to call it. Two bucks says there is a lot more to the story.
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I missed that it was a King Cobra. Yes, they are nose draggers.
 
Russians also had the only P63s that might have seen combat towards the VERY end of the war. Conflicting reports of them engaging 190s but no one knows for sure.
 
txflyer said:
O.k. I get he ditched gear up in the grass per the standard OP for a warbird.
Click to expand...

But that's where this story goes off the rails - he didn't need to ditch in the grass, there is a perfectly good paved runway 20-30 feet east of him, parallel to the direction of travel he ended up facing. There was no need of a gear-up unless he couldn't get the gear down - but that's not what is being reported. The engine was still windmilling (prop tips bent) so he had engine rotation and thus had hydraulics for the gear. Now, if he lost power due to fuel starvation and was trying to stretch a glide, I can see keeping the gear up until it's too late to put it down - in which case the grass may be more inviting than the pavement.

Like I said - there has got to be more to this story than is being told - or at least a different story. Again - I'm not hacking on the pilot, just the reporting. I'd love to know what was really going on here. He departed San Marcos where they are selling $1/gallon fuel - surely he would have tanked up, and yet the story is that he ran low on fuel before reaching Midland? It just doesn't make sense.
 
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airguy said:
But that's where this story goes off the rails - he didn't need to ditch in the grass, there is a perfectly good paved runway 20-30 feet east of him, parallel to the direction of travel he ended up facing. There was no need of a gear-up unless he couldn't get the gear down - but that's not what is being reported. The engine was still windmilling (prop tips bent) so he had engine rotation and thus had hydraulics for the gear. Now, if he lost power due to fuel starvation and was trying to stretch a glide, I can see keeping the gear up until it's too late to put it down - in which case the grass may be more inviting than the pavement.

Like I said - there has got to be more to this story than is being told - or at least a different story. Again - I'm not hacking on the pilot, just the reporting. I'd love to know what was really going on here. He departed San Marcos where they are selling $1/gallon fuel - surely he would have tanked up, and yet the story is that he ran low on fuel before reaching Midland? It just doesn't make sense.
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There is a report on one of the warbird forums that this a/c has had fuel selector problems, apparently preventing the switching of tanks (even though a new tank was selected). No idea whether that report is correct, or if it was a causal factor.
 
I've heard that pavement is better than grass for gear up landings.
 
airguy said:
But that's where this story goes off the rails - he didn't need to ditch in the grass, there is a perfectly good paved runway 20-30 feet east of him, parallel to the direction of travel he ended up facing. There was no need of a gear-up unless he couldn't get the gear down - but that's not what is being reported. The engine was still windmilling (prop tips bent) so he had engine rotation and thus had hydraulics for the gear. Now, if he lost power due to fuel starvation and was trying to stretch a glide, I can see keeping the gear up until it's too late to put it down - in which case the grass may be more inviting than the pavement.

Like I said - there has got to be more to this story than is being told - or at least a different story. Again - I'm not hacking on the pilot, just the reporting. I'd love to know what was really going on here. He departed San Marcos where they are selling $1/gallon fuel - surely he would have tanked up, and yet the story is that he ran low on fuel before reaching Midland? It just doesn't make sense.
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The plane is / was BASED in San Marcos, and I doubt the $1 fuel had anything at all to do with it. The fuel selector valve issue sounds reasonable. San Marcos to Midland isn't an extremely long flight for these old birds.

Ryan
 
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